G-K gear giving me grief lately

[vinny]

I'm having a bad run with my G-K gear. A few weeks ago I posted about low output on my RB1001 II head. I took it to a shop & it took them until yesterday to get a response from G-K. Turns out the amp board is bad & needs to be replaced. The board alone is $270. Then Friday I pull out a back-up head (old Acoustic 450) to use for the gig. I figure I'd better run it & hook it up to my G-K 410 RBH only to find one of the speakers is buzzing. Crap. Neither of these pieces of gear has hard use or long hours on them. I wound up playing the gig (classic rock, new country) with the Acoustic & an SWR 1x15. I gotta tell ya' I liked the performance I got out of that old gear & I'm now questioning this other rig.

[JimmyM]

$270 for a board...sheesh! sorry gk but i'm with you. that's highly excessive.

[rpsands]

270 for the amp board, the most expensive part of the amplifier, in a 750 dollar amp, is excessive?

* what I will say is it seems a bit excessive to be replacing the entire board any time something goes wrong almost, so that'd be my bigger concern.

[BassmanPaul]

Whether we like it or not it IS something that we ALL are going to have to get used to. As more and more surface mount technology gets used in our gear less and less will it be serviceable at the board level. I KNOW that I won't be doing any. I simply don't have the required equipment (expensive) or, in fact, the eyesight to do it.

[TinIndian]

Thank God I'm a Manufacturing Engineer and Surface Mount is what I do. It doesn't take much different equipment from normal thru hole soldering, but it does take a much higher skill level than what most are used to doing. Mostly it is experience and lots of practice.

What bothers me is that they are basically saying they ca't fix it at board level and need to replace the board. Unless the raw glass itself is bad I can't understand why it can't fixed and must be replaced. Unless there is damage to the glass darn near anything can be fixed.

[AwkwardLoudness]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Whether we like it or not it IS something that we ALL are going to have to get used to.

Not all of us. I'm sticking to hand-wired tubes amps or vintage amps with sturdy PCBs and non-ergonomic large copper traces and through-hole components.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

Whether we like it or not it IS something that we ALL are going to have to get used to. As more and more surface mount technology gets used in our gear less and less will it be serviceable at the board level. I KNOW that I won't be doing any. I simply don't have the required equipment (expensive) or, in fact, the eyesight to do it.

well after seeing the costs of board replacements in many of these amps with surface mounted parts, i think it's shameful. it's all about making the manufacturer happy and screw the consumer. to have to put a new board in because a single resistor goes out is a disgrace. these aren't dvd players you buy at walmart for $50.

[Wes Whitmore]

I had a preamp board go out on a GK700RB a couple of years ago. It ended up being the same overall price to replace the handful of bad parts as getting an entire brand new preamp board. I also got the newest board release, which was supposed to be an improved board design that was less prone to failure. I think the preamp board was $120parts cost. It has the DI, efx loops, and the entire preamp section in it.

I had a GK1001 combo smoke on me years ago and I was allowed to order a GK1001II for $400 and my core. At the time, it seemed like a good deal.

GK has been using the board replacement procedure for a long time...

[My name is Mudd]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

to have to put a new board in because a single resistor goes out is a disgrace.

I agree.

[Wes Whitmore]

Replacement boards from the MB series hopefully are a lot less than the RB series. They aren't ICE modules. They come with a big transformer, and big caps as well.

[greenboy]

Actually it's been about giving the consumer a lot more for a lot less at the front of the transaction, and balancing reliability service issues against that. It's a lot like low risk gambling, or it wouldn't have worked in the marketplace for so long... As many consumers desire some miniaturization yet with big performance and often with a significant feature set, it's pretty much the only way you can do product manufacture that provides all that at the competitive pricing people have come to expect. And the companies get used to the R&D and manufacturing cycles.

Can't blame the companies without looking at the customers.

EDIT: On the other hand, in the rush to get new stuff out the door, some engineers/companies often don't optimize their designs into "likely-case" serviceable subsections. That is kind of sad. Part of being in an over-competitive cut-throat market where surface impressions and brand names are some of the cards you have to play.

[gustobassman]

if you, like me, like your GK stuff, switch to the 800RB. I owned the 1001RB and it was nothing but trouble. Switched to the GK 800RB and have had only one issue in 8 years of hard abuse. My power switch went out. that was it..

[brndn123]

I've had my 1001 for years. I've dropped it, underpowered it, slammed it, taken it out in rainy weather and everything in between. I've had not one issue with it. I quote the Squier CVers out there, "don't judge the entire line after a few small experiences." You probably purchased a lemon.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Actually it's been about giving the consumer a lot more for a lot less at the front of the transaction, and balancing reliability service issues against that. It's a lot like low risk gambling, or it wouldn't have worked in the marketplace for so long... As many consumers desire some miniaturization yet with big performance and often with a significant feature set, it's pretty much the only way you can do product manufacture that provides all that at the competitive pricing people have come to expect. And the companies get used to the R&D and manufacturing cycles.

Can't blame the companies without looking at the customers.

EDIT: On the other hand, in the rush to get new stuff out the door, some engineers/companies often don't optimize their designs into "likely-case" serviceable subsections. That is kind of sad. Part of being in an over-competitive cut-throat market where surface impressions and brand names are some of the cards you have to play.

i guess. we are kind of cheap.

[My name is Mudd]

Originally Posted by greenboy

EDIT: On the other hand, in the rush to get new stuff out the door, some engineers/companies often don't optimize their designs into "likely-case" serviceable subsections. That is kind of sad. Part of being in an over-competitive cut-throat market where surface impressions and brand names are some of the cards you have to play.

Every now and then, I question whether the people that design a thing ever actually USE the thing in a real-world situation.

[NortyFiner]

This is why I decided to buy a new comp pedal instead of getting my old one repaired. The price would have been the same.

[NortyFiner]

Originally Posted by My name is Mudd

Every now and then, I question whether the people that design a thing ever actually USE the thing in a real-world situation.

I spent a lot of time in the Navy wondering that about the carriers I drove. One day, the know-it-all ship designers actually came to the ship and spent a few weeks at sea with us, watching how everything REALLY worked. They were very humble when they left. Quote: "We had NO idea how much work it actually took to run this ship." I imagine it isn't much different in the music world...

[brndn123]

Originally Posted by My name is Mudd

Every now and then, I question whether the people that design a thing ever actually USE the thing in a real-world situation.

According to GK, they give all of their products a simulated stress test in the last phase of production before packaging. I think there's a video of Norm Stockton touring Stockton, CA factory (coincidence?) floating around on the tube.

As for bass players employed by GK using their product...

[TinIndian]

Originally Posted by My name is Mudd

Every now and then, I question whether the people that design a thing ever actually USE the thing in a real-world situation.

Honestly, being in the manufacturing segment, I've always thought all design engineers should spend at least 2 weeks on the production floor actually building something they designed. It would put an instant end to a great many bad practices and poor layouts. It's all about DFM, Design For Manufacturability.

Did the repair Tech say what the problems were with the PWA?

[vinny]

Originally Posted by brndn123

I've had my 1001 for years. I've dropped it, underpowered it, slammed it, taken it out in rainy weather and everything in between. I've had not one issue with it. I quote the Squier CVers out there, "don't judge the entire line after a few small experiences." You probably purchased a lemon.

While I'm happy for your good fortune, I'll point out that another guy brought in the same amp with the same problem the very day I brought mine in. One is an '06 & the other an '07. Maybe I should have bounced mine around more.