Gain and Volume Settings

[jackajesusfreak]

I just scooped up that Trace Elliot Commando 12 to use as a monitor. It has a Gain and Volume Knob. I've never used an amp that had both.
What's the rule of thumb, if there is one, as far as setting those 2 controls? Do you go open with the gain and ease the volume up to desired level, or vice versa?

Jack

[Gearhead17]

Amp heads are all different brand to brand, but a good rule of thumb I follow is to read the manual first! (Search online for it). There is usually an in-depth description on how the gain level and volume level effect each other.

I know that is not the answer you want to hear, but it will solve YOUR ISSUE immediately. Each head is truly different and a blanket statement will not help you.

[recreate.me]

Typically amps with Gain will add that dirty sound to the signal and the volume would just increase the volume level (at least on a SS amp). I would get the amount of dirt i wanted with the gain then open up the volume until it was loud enough.

I have an amp with a Volume knob, AND a Master Volume knob. In this case i use it about the same where but i find since its a tube it gets a more OD sound and i pretty much leave that at the level of break up then adjust the master to make it loud enough.

Just turn them until they are loud enough and sound the way you want! Same as any EQ really.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

I just scooped up that Trace Elliot Commando 12 to use as a monitor. It has a Gain and Volume Knob. I've never used an amp that had both.
What's the rule of thumb, if there is one, as far as setting those 2 controls? Do you go open with the gain and ease the volume up to desired level, or vice versa?

Jack

In general:

Too much gain can overdrive the preamp. If pleasing distortion is the result, then that's a good thing. If you don't like distortion, bring gain down until you don't hear it any more.

Too little gain might result in a noisy signal: by that I mean hiss or hum, not distortion.

A good rule of thumb is to bring gain up until you hear distortion on the loudest notes -- check the clip light if your amp has one -- then back off until it's clean. If you want a clean signal, that is.

Think of volume as master volume. Once everything else is set to your liking, then adjust volume to the necessary level.

[jackajesusfreak]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

In general:

Too much gain can overdrive the preamp. If pleasing distortion is the result, then that's a good thing. If you don't like distortion, bring gain down until you don't hear it any more.

Too little gain might result in a noisy signal: by that I mean hiss or hum, not distortion.

A good rule of thumb is to bring gain up until you hear distortion on the loudest notes -- check the clip light if your amp has one -- then back off until it's clean. If you want a clean signal, that is.

Think of volume as master volume. Once everything else is set to your liking, then adjust volume to the necessary level.

That is easy to understand. I just got the manual on line, but all it shows are the different settings for different sounds. Jazz, Classic Trace, Funk etc.

[bongomania]

For almost all amps: set gain for best tone, then use the volume to set the loudness.

Gain is the level going into the amp, and volume is the level going out.

[jackajesusfreak]

Thanks to all of you for your input and explanations. I think I have it figured out. I also have a post concerning direct boxes.

Jack

[onetime]

Originally Posted by bongomania

For almost all amps: set gain for best tone, then use the volume to set the loudness.

Gain is the level going into the amp, and volume is the level going out.

Thanks so much, that was exactly the answer I was looking for also.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by bongomania

For almost all amps: set gain for best tone, then use the volume to set the loudness.

Gain is the level going into the amp, and volume is the level going out.

I've always wondered why some amps have three, namely, Gain Volume, and Master? My Roland DB 700 for example has these controls. I usually set the Gain and Volume about the same, then use the Master for the room volume, but I've always wondered if I'm not doing it correctly. Sounds good in any event, though !

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I've always wondered why some amps have three, namely, Gain Volume, and Master? My Roland DB 700 for example has these controls. I usually set the Gain and Volume about the same, then use the Master for the room volume, but I've always wondered if I'm not doing it correctly. Sounds good in any event, though !

That configuration is cool if you have a tube preamp (or I guess an amp that has 'tube modeling' at the input stage like the Roland). Genz Benz uses this configuration also.

The purpose is to allow the user to drive the heck out of the input stage for distortion and/or tube complexity, but yet not overload the EQ section, etc. with too hot of a signal. So, the logic is to use the first gain stage to get your tone (if you want your tone clean, it's kind of a moot point), use the secondary 'volume' control to get the signal back down to a level that won't overdrive the rest of the pre circuitry, and then use the Master to adjust volume.

This configuration kind of mirrors a pre/power amp set-up, where the pre gain control is used to get tone and/or optimum signal to noise, the volume of the pre is then used to optimize the signal strength into the power amp, and finally the poweramp 'volume' (master) is used to control the volume of the entire rig.

[beans-on-toast]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I've always wondered why some amps have three, namely, Gain Volume, and Master?

It varies from amp to amp but I usually look at it like this:

Gain sets the input pre-amp stage amplification level. High gain is dirtier, low gain is clean. Volume is the pre-amp volume. It comes after the initial gain stage. Master is the volume in the power amp.

You can set the master on full and control the overall volume with the pre-amp volume control. Some people feel that this opens the amp up a little. Ampeg recommends that you do this if you want your SVT-CL to perform more like an SVT-VR for example. Otherwise, you can boost the pre-amp volume and make it as hot as you want and turn down the master to the level that best suits the room.

KJung beat me to it.....

[jnewmark]

Yeah, I thought it might be something like that, as the Roland has on the gain control a " drive " designation from about 3/4 on to full. I never get to that point anyway, and never use the " tube " modeling.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I've always wondered why some amps have three, namely, Gain Volume, and Master?

It's to allow balancing of gain as needed and to allow all amp stages to work together to achieve desired tone. It also allows gain structure balancing for devices used within the effects loop(s).

For example, in the case of our GBE series amps, there are effects loops for the FET channel, the tube channel and the master section. Depending on the desired tone and overdrive of the preamp stages and if the effects loops are being used, the gain, volume and master controls can be used to balance out the relative levels all around.

[floatingaxe]

I don't know about Volume and Master Volume, but my GK has a Gain and Volume.
The gain controls the pre signal but also controls the send to the line out and direct out jacks. So messing with the gain mid-set will mess with the signal going to the PA. Bad idea. I usually have to leave the gain around noon to not send too much to the PA.
The GK manual says to set the volume at 3-4 o'clock and then adjust the gain, probably to maximize the benfits of the EQ.