Gallien Kreuger Official Club Part 7

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Vic

I hadn't even considered the overdrive thing... totally off my radar. I stand corrected.

It is a unique way to deal with 'grind' and even 'heavy distortion' and still use a two way cab with tweeter. Again, most who really like that sort of grindy, vintage 'sealed 10' sort of lower treble break-up would not even want a tweeter, clean or not, but it does allow for a very 'tweakable' rig, and again, does a good job from a marketing perspective of promoting 'same brand' cab and head.

[Chef]

It's a feature I use and like.
As I've said, many times, I'm ---not---an overdrive guy.
But, with this, I can add a light amount of that, which I would normally find offensive thru any of my horn loaded cabs, and enjoy it....while maintaining the top end clarity and sheen I like at the same time.

I think it's a neat feature.

I still use my MBF more though.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by KJung

It is a unique way to deal with 'grind' and even 'heavy distortion' and still use a two way cab with tweeter. Again, most who really like that sort of grindy, vintage 'sealed 10' sort of lower treble break-up would not even want a tweeter, clean or not, but it does allow for a very 'tweakable' rig, and again, does a good job from a marketing perspective of promoting 'same brand' cab and head.

Yeah, I guess back in the day when I had this config I never realized the real benefits. I just saw it as a "better" tweeter control since I never do the distortion thing. At least in my case, it wouldn't affect my cab purchasing decision, but I can definitely see where it would for some.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Vic

Yeah, I guess back in the day when I had this config I never realized the real benefits. I just saw it as a "better" tweeter control since I never do the distortion thing. At least in my case, it wouldn't affect my cab purchasing decision, but I can definitely see where it would for some.

+1 Even though I like a bit of grit in my tone, it isn't to the level where I noticed a difference with the 700RB when run full range versus biamp (i.e., the tweeter sounded good and similar both ways). Pretty cool design though, and other than add some complexity and cost to the design, really no downside to having that option.

And, again, a pretty good motivator to use a GK cab with a GK head, since you couldn't even use that option with another brand's cab. Kudo's on both the design and 'marketing/product development strategy' on that one.

I remember my theory back then was that it might actually hurt the sales of the 700/1001/2001, since I thought it would be a bit strange to buy a head with a major feature that wouldn't work with other brands' cabs, but I think I was wrong on that one (although primarily because IMO most players have no clue as to what the feature actually is or does).

[Chef]

Seriously!

I've run into at least three other players this year with this rig, who had ---zero idea---what that feature set did.

***?
people don't read manuals????

Originally Posted by KJung

(although primarily because IMO most players have no clue as to what the feature actually is or does).

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Chef

It's a feature I use and like.
As I've said, many times, I'm ---not---an overdrive guy.
But, with this, I can add a light amount of that, which I would normally find offensive thru any of my horn loaded cabs, and enjoy it....while maintaining the top end clarity and sheen I like at the same time.

I think it's a neat feature.

I still use my MBF more though.

+1 across the board.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Chef

Seriously!

I've run into at least three other players this year with this rig, who had ---zero idea---what that feature set did.

***?
people don't read manuals????

IMO, for the vast majority of bassists, the concepts of biamping, and especially in this case, the pretty subtle issue of 'clean upper treble' versus 'allowing the top of the driver to break up a bit', etc. would be like reading a manual in a different language.

I would guess that even among those that happen to use the larger GK amps in biamp mode, they don't know why they are doing it, and in many cases, they would not in any way hear anything different if they went to fullrange mode

I would also guess that most GK fans that do understand the logic of this are on Talkbass!

Again, for those who get it, and like significant 'GK grit' in their tone combined with a relatively clean top end, it is pretty cool.

[Chef]

Really, I don't know why I do it.
Why do I do that?

I drink a lot.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Chef

Really, I don't know why I do it.
Why do I do that?

I drink a lot.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by KJung

IMO, for the vast majority of bassists, the concepts of biamping, and especially in this case, the pretty subtle issue of 'clean upper treble' versus 'allowing the top of the driver to break up a bit', etc. would be like reading a manual in a different language...

Maybe even counter-intuitive in some ways, actually...

Even though I never really got much into the distortion thing, I do recall it was kind of a big deal to (ironically) overdrive the high end and leave the low end clean (I think there's at least one pedal that does an octave double and then only overdrives that higher sound). Kinda' like "faking" another rhythm guitarist or at least filling some of that space.

I always thought I'd prefer that model, because I always hated the way processing took my punch/dynamics away when applied to the low end.

I know this is a different case, because the tweeter is above the range I'm talking about, but without really thinking about it, "general intuition" might be opposite the (IMHO sensible) goals of this feature to the average bassist.

Just a thought.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Vic

Maybe even counter-intuitive in some ways, actually...

Even though I never really got much into the distortion thing, I do recall it was kind of a big deal to (ironically) overdrive the high end and leave the low end clean (I think there's at least one pedal that does an octave double and then only overdrives that higher sound). Kinda' like "faking" another rhythm guitarist or at least filling some of that space.

I always thought I'd prefer that model, because I always hated the way processing took my punch/dynamics away when applied to the low end.

I know this is a different case, because the tweeter is above the range I'm talking about, but without really thinking about it, "general intuition" might be opposite the (IMHO sensible) goals of this feature to the average bassist.

Just a thought.

+1 Most who are into significant 'grit and grind' are much more concerned with losing low end, and most would not be interested in a cabinet with a tweeter anyway.

You point is one of the reasons that effect pedal companies come out with 'bass specific' models, in many cases primarily hi passing the effect so that the low end of the singal is not impacted by the chorus/distortion, etc.

However, the unique voicing of the GK heads, with that signature 'grind' that really seems to impact primarily the top end, makes the unusual concept of biamping just a tweeter make at least some sense. +1 though that it would be lost on most users/buyers, and my guess is they wouldn't lose ANY sales by eliminating that feature. For those in the know who like the relatively unusual tone profile of significant midrange distortion but still desiring a clean upper treble, well, it delivers!

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Vic

Maybe even counter-intuitive in some ways, actually...

Even though I never really got much into the distortion thing, I do recall it was kind of a big deal to (ironically) overdrive the high end and leave the low end clean (I think there's at least one pedal that does an octave double and then only overdrives that higher sound). Kinda' like "faking" another rhythm guitarist or at least filling some of that space.

I always thought I'd prefer that model, because I always hated the way processing took my punch/dynamics away when applied to the low end.

I know this is a different case, because the tweeter is above the range I'm talking about, but without really thinking about it, "general intuition" might be opposite the (IMHO sensible) goals of this feature to the average bassist.

Just a thought.

IME/IMHO, to get the best overdriven tone, it's advantageous to keep your lows clean (the exact crossover point being a question of personal preference), drive the midrange (pert near all of it, even up to the limits of the upper mids), but then either dial out (or not reproduce) the highs or else keep them clean.

Way back before I started writing for magazines, I had Tom Lees build me an overdrive "pedal" (it was just a collection of solder, wire and circuits) based upon my idea about having an overdrive pedal with a variable low-pass filter on a clean blend. This led to the most amazing bass overdrive I have heard, and you could really tweak the character of the drive by choosing how much clean lows you wanted to bring in and at what frequency.

At the time, we had no high end control component, but I was running it through mostly tweeterless cabs. With the GK HMS, though, a pedal like that and the horn control would give you all kinds of options.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

IME/IMHO, to get the best overdriven tone, it's advantageous to keep your lows clean (the exact crossover point being a question of personal preference), drive the midrange (pert near all of it, even up to the limits of the upper mids), but then either dial out (or not reproduce) the highs or else keep them clean.

Way back before I started writing for magazines, I had Tom Lees build me an overdrive "pedal" (it was just a collection of solder, wire and circuits) based upon my idea about having an overdrive pedal with a variable low-pass filter on a clean blend. This led to the most amazing bass overdrive I have heard, and you could really tweak the character of the drive by choosing how much clean lows you wanted to bring in and at what frequency.

At the time, we had no high end control component, but I was running it through mostly tweeterless cabs. With the GK HMS, though, a pedal like that and the horn control would give you all kinds of options.

+1 Per my post above, most 'bass specific' overdrive pedals are hi passed (not lo passed... in other words, the higher frequencies a 'passed through' to be impacted by the pedal... I assume a sort of 'parallel effects loop' sort of design) so that the effect only impacts the lower midrange and above. Per your point, having that as a variable control would be cool.

Per Vic's post, this is kind of the exact opposite of the GK biamp circuit, which makes the concept even a bit more difficult for many to get their heads around (especially those that are into significant overdrive and who would most likely not be interesting in the frequences that come out of a tweeter at all(.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 Per my post above, most 'bass specific' overdrive pedals are hi passed (not lo passed... in other words, the higher frequencies a 'passed through' to be impacted by the pedal... I assume a sort of 'parallel effects loop' sort of design) so that the effect only impacts the lower midrange and above. Per your point, having that as a variable control would be cool.

Per Vic's post, this is kind of the exact opposite of the GK biamp circuit, which makes the concept even a bit more difficult for many to get their heads around (especially those that are into significant overdrive and who would most likely not be interesting in the frequences that come out of a tweeter at all(.

Yeah, what we did was run the overdrive full range, and then low-pass the clean signal, which was then blended with the overdrive via a variable blend knob. This is a slightly different approach, and to my ears, sonically superior. Not to say that high-passing the "dirty" channel couldn't also work well, but compared to what else I've heard on the market, the "variable low-pass, variable blend clean option" sounded better.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Yeah, what we did was run the overdrive full range, and then low-pass the clean signal, which was then blended with the overdrive via a variable blend knob. This is a slightly different approach, and to my ears, sonically superior. Not to say that high-passing the "dirty" channel couldn't also work well, but compared to what else I've heard on the market, the "variable low-pass, variable blend clean option" sounded better.

+1 I was just about to edit my post, since you could (per your post) attack the issue either with lo passing or hi passing, and it does not surprise me that either approach would work with some differences in result. Cool.

Back to the GK approach, again, to me a unique approach that matches the unique version of 'distortion' that the GK heads provide. No issue with low end with those heads, even when driven hard, and since it isn't a classic 'SVT type full range grind, I can see that, more than most realize, many who dig GK might really benefit from that more 'classic' one way cab grind GK tone with that bit of open sparkle up top.

I've also always been impresses with that 'on/off' hi pass button that allows you to keep the tweeter active, but make it sound more like the top end of a mid driver than the more 'metalic sizzle' of a tweeter. My guess is, most don't realize what that button is about either

[Chef]

it's a cool concept, really:

-dirt sounds bad thru horns
-give the horn it's own clean little power amp
-send the dirt to the paper cones, where it sounds good

I really only push the 1001 "to added harmonics," but, I still like and use that feature.

[scottfeldstein]

This is all extremely educational, guys, thanks!

[TK4261]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

This is all extremely educational, guys, thanks!

+1

[TK4261]

The update from GK today is the MB Fusion 800 wont be out till early March now...That is a little beyond Lame...

[Chef]

Where's your info from?
Not questioning it, just curious....