Gallien Krueger rig expansion and wattage question

[Mola Ram]

I was wondering if I could get an answer to a question I had about my rig.

I have been using a GK 700RB-II head through a 410RBX-II cab and I want to extend my rig to include a 15. I found a good deal on a GK 115RBX and I was looking at the specs and I was getting completely confused.

Both cabs have an impedance of 8 ohms and have a power handling of 400 watts.

Now the specs for the 700RB are 480W @ 4 ohm and 320W @ 8 ohm

This is the part that’s messing me up. If I hook up two 8 ohm cabs to the head it changes the impedance to 4 ohms…so then my head is pumping out 480 watts. Isn’t this too much for the cabinets since both of them have power handlings of only 400 watts?

This is what I’ve come up with from reading the FAQ from this site and other sites. It just makes no sense in my head that these three GK products, that all appear to be designed to work together, would not be compatible when making a full stack. Am I completely off bass? (HA, pun)

Thanks in advance to any help!

[georgestrings]

What will happen is that each cab will see a max of 240 watts, and FWIW, I wouldn't go this route... If the 410 isn't getting it done, I'd add another 410, and not a 115...



- georgestrings

[Mola Ram]

Ahhh, so it splits the wattage of the head down the middle when you run a parallel connection? See I'm not sure why I didn't assume that to begin with.

Out of curiousity, why would you not go the route of a 115? I play thrash/black metal and I have a pretty over driven, but clear sound, and I play with a pick. My EQ tends to favor the mids and high and I roll back on the lows. The 410 is great, and I love it but I miss having the anchoring effect of the 15 I used to have in my combo.

[BassmanPaul]

A average 15 is incapable of keeping up with a 4x10. It will hinder you more than help you. The 4x10 will be more efficient and louder and probably go lower than the 15. You'll end up blowing it. It's a fallacy that a larger cone will go lower than a smaller one. It all depends on how the driver is designed and matched to its enclosure.

Paul

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by Mola Ram

I was wondering if I could get an answer to a question I had about my rig.

I have been using a GK 700RB-II head through a 410SBX+ cab and I want to extend my rig to include a 15. I found a good deal on a GK 115SBX and I was looking at the specs and I was getting completely confused.

Both cabs have an impedance of 8 ohms and have a power handling of 400 watts.

Now the specs for the 700RB are 480W @ 4 ohm and 320W @ 8 ohm

This is the part that’s messing me up. If I hook up two 8 ohm cabs to the head it changes the impedance to 4 ohms…so then my head is pumping out 480 watts. Isn’t this too much for the cabinets since both of them have power handlings of only 400 watts?

This is what I’ve come up with from reading the FAQ from this site and other sites. It just makes no sense in my head that these three GK products, that all appear to be designed to work together, would not be compatible when making a full stack. Am I completely off bass? (HA, pun)

Thanks in advance to any help!

I'm running pretty much the same rig (700RB-I into a 410SBX+ and a 115SBX).

The 15" doesn't "add" bottom or warmth as commonly assumed, but I think it complements the 410 very nicely covering up frequencies that the 410 doesn't grab. I started out with just the 700RB and the 15", so I like the sound of 15" speakers a bit more than 10" speakers. I play in a modern country band that plays a lot of stuff in the low D and C# range and I also play in a folk/hip-hop/punk/ska band that requires a bit more of a "upfront" bass tone, and this combo pretty much covers it all.

[Mola Ram]

Thank you both for the responses. Based of of these comments I did some more research and found that this is a highly debated topic. Some people who have the combo love it and wouldn't use anything else and there are others that say it's a mistake.

I guess I'm just confused again as to my I would eventually blow out the 115 if it seems to have identical specs to the 410 as how much power it can handle.

Also, I should say, my drummer's other bassist is the reason I was leaning to the 115 because he has a similar set up and says he wouldn't change it for anything, and he started with an 810.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by Mola Ram

Thank you both for the responses. Based of of these comments I did some more research and found that this is a highly debated topic. Some people who have the combo love it and wouldn't use anything else and there are others that say it's a mistake.

I guess I'm just confused again as to my I would eventually blow out the 115 if it seems to have identical specs to the 410 as how much power it can handle.

Also, I should say, my drummer's other bassist is the reason I was leaning to the 115 because he has a similar set up and says he wouldn't change it for anything, and he started with an 810.

Why do you think you would blow out the 15 if it has the same specs as the 410? That just says that they will both go simultaneously.

[Skrapmetal]

Originally Posted by Rockman

Why do you think you would blow out the 15 if it has the same specs as the 410? That just says that they will both go simultaneously.

He was told a few posts ago that he would blow the 15 because it wouldn't keep up.

I have the very same amp and cabinet, so I'm gathering opinions on the same exact thing. No one agrees.

[Mola Ram]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

A average 15 is incapable of keeping up with a 4x10. It will hinder you more than help you. The 4x10 will be more efficient and louder and probably go lower than the 15. You'll end up blowing it. It's a fallacy that a larger cone will go lower than a smaller one. It all depends on how the driver is designed and matched to its enclosure.

Paul

Hey Rockman, I thought that bassed (haha!) off of what Paul said here about "blowing it".

[silky smoove]

The power rating of the cabs indicates it's thermal handling. That's largely meaningless given that the cabs will likely reach their mechanical limit long before their thermal limit. Stop looking at the numbers and using that as your guide.

The reason that a 1x15 is a bad match for a 4x10 is that, speaking in 'average' terms, a 4x10 will put out a lot more sound than a 1x15 being fed the same amount of power. Regardless if you'll blow the 1x15, the 4x10 will overpower it from a volume standpoint and you won't gain that much. Remember that doubling your cabs will result in a 6db increase, which is huge. Adding that 1x15 will be considerably less and, again, won't really add much as you'll be hearing the 4x10 considerably more than the 1x15.

[JimmyM]

those who think it's a mistake come from a background of audio and speaker science and playing bass. those who think it's great come from a background of playing bass but don't know much about speaker science. now i'm not saying that a background of playing bass isn't enough to make a decision, and it's everyone's own personal decision to make, but i will go with the experts every single time. having tried many of the things that the experts say and realizing that they're right and they have the scientific proof that they're right, i'm convinced that doing things against what they recommend isn't going to help me.

[Zitch]

Dont rule out the 2x12 option, I run 4x12 with my 1001 rbll and am in bass heaven. The 12's are a great compromise between the 10's and 15 option.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Zitch

Dont rule out the 2x12 option, I run 4x12 with my 1001 rbll and am in bass heaven. The 12's are a great compromise between the 10's and 15 option.

why?

[powellmacaque]

Well, somebody needs to get ahold of Larry and Bob to let them know their ads are promoting misuse...

[JimmyM]

again, being a good bass player doesn't mean you know **** about audio science.

[Mola Ram]

Ok, so on the audio science level 2 410's is going to be louder than a 410 + 115.

What if someone wasn't super concerned about volume? I was originally told that the 115 just adds to the sound in hitting frequencies that the 410 doesn't.

I mean, maybe I'm jsut going about it the wrong way too, but I'm jsut looking to make my sound "better" and but I don't really care about "louder" if that makes sense.

[powellmacaque]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

again, being a good bass player doesn't mean you know **** about audio science.

Right, but I'm assuming Mr. Gallien and Mr. Hartke both are at least a bit knowledgeable in the field. Why promote products together that won't work together? That'd be like having Ford promoting the Focus towing three or four tons. I know at least in my situation, I thought the combination worked due to these ads and others like it.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Mola Ram

Ok, so on the audio science level 2 410's is going to be louder than a 410 + 115.

What if someone wasn't super concerned about volume? I was originally told that the 115 just adds to the sound in hitting frequencies that the 410 doesn't.

rare is the 410 that doesn't hit the same freqs that a 115 can hit. it's an idea based solely on looks. for example, here are the freq specs for the rbx115 II:

Frequency Response (-3db): 50Hz to 19kHz
Usable Low Frequency (-10db): 42Hz

here's the specs for the 410rbx II

Frequency Response (-3dB): 54 Hz to 19 kHz
Usable Low Frequency (-10dB): 31 Hz

so while the 115 has a slight advantage at -3db, at -10db the 410 goes way lower.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by powellmacaque

Right, but I'm assuming Mr. Gallien and Mr. Hartke both are at least a bit knowledgeable in the field. Why promote products together that won't work together? That'd be like having Ford promoting the Focus towing three or four tons. I know at least in my situation, I thought the combination worked due to these ads and others like it.

engineering and sales have completely different goals. if they make you want to buy a 115 along with your 410 when your 410 is probably fine, they really don't care if they work as well as they could together. they just care that you buy.

[jelwood]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

engineering and sales have completely different goals. if they make you want to buy a 115 along with your 410 when your 410 is probably fine, they really don't care if they work as well as they could together. they just care that you buy.

I have to make a defense in GKs name here. If GK wanted to make as much money as possible, they would have tapped on their market power and popularity by now, and their amps would definitely cost a bit more than they do now. We've all seen the threads where people ask why GK costs so much less yet sounds so much better (although you personally may not like GK, you can't deny that a lot of people feel this way). Bob works to keep production costs low and lets that low cost be reflected in the price of his products.

But anyways, IMHO, the 410 and 115 deal might just be Flea's preference? Did anyone think of that? Surely flea has tried every setup imaginable by now. Maybe that's just what he likes.

And to top it off, a 410 and a 115 isn't the most expensive setup. If GK and Hartke wanted to make the most money...wouldn't they be advertising something more expensive, like two 410s?