GB Shuttle 6.0 and the Fender Rumble 350

[knappymer]

Just heard a rumor that the power amps in the Fender Rumble 350 and Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 are one in the same.

I've heard of Company flubs on power output before, and such things like that. But is there anyone who can confirm this or put it to rest?


Thanks for your time.

[agedhorse]

The Rumble is a 210 cabinet and 350 watts is just about the ideal power to maintain high speaker reliability. Since you can't use external speakers with the Rumble, it makes sense to limit the output of the power amp to a more reasonable level than it's potential maximum power.

The Shuttle, however, is designed to be used with all kinds of cabinets and the combos can be used with an extension cabinet. Our 210 is an 8 ohm cabinet and therefore additional power at 4 ohms makes sense as we would not be jepordizing the relaibility of the combo's 10" speakers.

Just different applications and design approaches, pick the one that serves your needs the best.

[knappymer]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

The Rumble is a 210 cabinet and 350 watts is just about the ideal power to maintain high speaker reliability. Since you can't use external speakers with the Rumble, it makes sense to limit the output of the power amp to a more reasonable tevel than it's potential maximum power.

The Shuttle, however, is designed to be used with all kinds of cabinets and the combos can be used with an extension cabinet. Our 210 is an 8 ohm cabinet and therefore additional power at 4 ohms makes sense as we would not be jepordizing the relaibility of the combo's 10" speakers.

Just different applications and design approaches, pick the one that serves your needs the best.

Thanks for your reply agedhorse. I was however referring to the Fender Rumber 350 head not the combo. And again, it was just hearsay that I had come across. People don't often realize that some companies may or may not use some of the same components in different products yeilding different results. Just a fact I found interesting.

[agedhorse]

Sorry, I was thinking combo.

Same basic amp though, and each company's designers make choices that suit their particular product line's needs and especially their own voicing requirements as well as to achieve their particular feel and playability.

Parts are just parts, the major difference as it applies to the end product is how the parts are used and what design strategies are used to achieve the desired goals. Ours are obviously different in regards to this product line.

[pudgychef]

I have used the Rumble heads a few times (both the 150 and 300) the loudness I perceived in both of them was much louder than what I perceived in other, modern heads with similar power claims. Also Fender and GB are under the same umbrella now so perhaps that would make sense..

oh well Aged Horse would know a billion times more (both amount and accuracy) than I so I will stop at the perceived volume...

[agedhorse]

Much of perceived volume has to do with design choices other than gross power. That's what makes amp design so challenging (and creative). It comes down to massaging many different variables into something that performs well in the player's application. Just like defining hwat makes one bass feel just right in your hands and another similar looking bass feel wrong. It's in the subtleties of the design and the ultimate execution.

This is one reason I spend time on TB, it's a great opportunity to connect with (typically more experienced) players and get a feel for what this market likes and in part this is IMO a good indication and predictor of the trends in the bass industry as a whole. TB players tend to be much more sophisticated, older, more mature (for musicians anyway ) and generally well balanced in their discussions.

[jnewmark]

I have'nt paid attention to Fender bass amps in a long, long time, and did'nt even know they were in the lightweight bass head market. Seems like a good bang for the buck head. This whole " perceived volume" thing seems like a murky, confusing area, at least to me. Are we saying that the Fender 350 has the same " perceived loudness " as the Shuttle 6, or are we saying it's the same amp, but , somehow GB gets 600 watts out of it, and Fender chooses not to for some reason?

[pudgychef]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

I have'nt paid attention to Fender bass amps in a long, long time, and did'nt even know they were in the lightweight bass head market. Seems like a good bang for the buck head. This whole " perceived volume" thing seems like a murky, confusing area, at least to me. Are we saying that the Fender 350 has the same " perceived loudness " as the Shuttle 6, or are we saying it's the same amp, but , somehow GB gets 600 watts out of it, and Fender chooses not to for some reason?

well I used perceived volume to express what I heard - if I had said Amp 1 is louder than Amp2 there would be a pile of guys posting explanations of perceived volume and quoting facts and stats I am not familiar with. I know that into an 8ohm 4x10 and also in a different room into a pair of 8 ohm 1x12s that 350 head 'seemed' much louder than say the PF350 and the 150 seemed much louder than the MB200...... but its just ime, imho, ymmv etc etc

have not compared it to the shuttle though and I am sure the shuttle is great, as is the Streamliner and the Ampeg PF heads - just sharing experience on volume which is how I as one of the unwashed usually evaluate power...which I believe was the ? asked by the OP....


but then that is just my perceived understanding of the post...

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by pudgychef

well I used perceived volume to express what I heard - if I had said Amp 1 is louder than Amp2 there would be a pile of guys posting explanations of perceived volume and quoting facts and stats I am not familiar with. I know that into an 8ohm 4x10 and also in a different room into a pair of 8 ohm 1x12s that 350 head 'seemed' much louder than say the PF350 and the 150 seemed much louder than the MB200...... but its just ime, imho, ymmv etc etc

have not compared it to the shuttle though and I am sure the shuttle is great, as is the Streamliner and the Ampeg PF heads - just sharing experience on volume which is how I as one of the unwashed usually evaluate power...which I believe was the ? asked by the OP....


but then that is just my perceived understanding of the post...

No problem, was'nt really cracking on you. It just seems confusing to me why one company would just want to get 350 watts out of the same power amp that another company squeezes 600 out of. I know what you mean about what " seems louder " though. The loudest amp head I ever had was a 250 watt Yorkville mono block amp, that knocked beer bottles off the table out of just about any cab I used.

[pbass888]

not to highjack the thread ... but do these amps sound anything like the old bassmans or showmans?

[Firesalt]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

It just seems confusing to me why one company would just want to get 350 watts out of the same power amp that another company squeezes 600 out of.

Design application. Some people just want a cheaper, smaller amp. Hence the 350w vs 600w. Impedance plays into it as well. Fender most likely uses 8ohm cab/combo as does the paired cabs with the Shuttle series. The GB Shuttle 6.0 is also around the 350w range on 8ohm cabs.
See also:

Originally Posted by agedhorse

The Rumble is a 210 cabinet and 350 watts is just about the ideal power to maintain high speaker reliability. Since you can't use external speakers with the Rumble, it makes sense to limit the output of the power amp to a more reasonable level than it's potential maximum power.

The Shuttle, however, is designed to be used with all kinds of cabinets and the combos can be used with an extension cabinet. Our 210 is an 8 ohm cabinet and therefore additional power at 4 ohms makes sense as we would not be jeopardizing the reliability of the combo's 10" speakers.

Just different applications and design approaches, pick the one that serves your needs the best.

Now without spelling errors.

[Inconnu]

Originally Posted by pudgychef

Also Fender and GB are under the same umbrella now so perhaps that would make sense..

What? Was GB bought out by Fender... like SWR?

[Firesalt]

Originally Posted by pbass888

not to highjack the thread ... but do these amps sound anything like the old bassmans or showmans?

Here's a review on the Shuttle 6.0. You can judge for yourself.

[1n3]

From the Fender website:

The new Rumble 350 Head boasts a very conservative 350 watts (comparable to many competitors' class D products rated at 500 or 600 watts)...

I have become skeptical of micro amp power ratings (generalizing across the category). Caveat emptor.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by Firesalt

Now without spelling errors.

Yes, thank you!

[RickenBoogie]

Originally Posted by Inconnu

What? Was GB bought out by Fender... like SWR?

That's what I took from the OP, but agedhorse didn't mention anything in his replies. I don't think it's true either.

[sevenorchids]

I think Fender has owned Kaman, who owns GB, since 2008.

Kaman Completes the Sale of Its Music Segment | Reuters

[pudgychef]

Originally Posted by Inconnu

What? Was GB bought out by Fender... like SWR?

yes like 3 or 4 years ago

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

That's what I took from the OP, but agedhorse didn't mention anything in his replies. I don't think it's true either.

believe it, it was pretty heavily discussed when it happened.

Originally Posted by sevenorchids

I think Fender has owned Kaman, who owns GB, since 2008.

Kaman Completes the Sale of Its Music Segment | Reuters

+1 I wonder if that Fender influence/$$ had anything to do with the product explosion at GB - neo paks into shuttles and streamliners etc....ton of cool looking stuff out of them recently.

[pudgychef]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

No problem, was'nt really cracking on you. It just seems confusing to me why one company would just want to get 350 watts out of the same power amp that another company squeezes 600 out of. I know what you mean about what " seems louder " though. The loudest amp head I ever had was a 250 watt Yorkville mono block amp, that knocked beer bottles off the table out of just about any cab I used.

and yo just can't kill those mono blocks either!!

I didn't mean to come off like I thought you were giving me the gears - just acknowledging I lack the vocab and knowledge to really discuss power amps and out put what not....

[pudgychef]

Originally Posted by pbass888

not to highjack the thread ... but do these amps sound anything like the old bassmans or showmans?

Originally Posted by Firesalt

Here's a review on the Shuttle 6.0. You can judge for yourself.

or did you mean the Rumbles? Ime the combo sound a lot like he late 90s early 2000s bassman - the heads into the cabs sounded a little more modern to me. NONE of them sounded like all tube bassman/showmans to me....

I thought the Streamliner was pretty nice if fatter, more classic tone is desired..but I am sure the Shuttles sound great too!