GB Streamliner 900 Vs. Mesa Mpulse 600

[willsellout]

To explain: I have been playing a Streamliner 900 through a GB NX2 212 cab and I had posted in the STL thread that I was struggling volume wise, having trouble hearing myself, and I was hitting the 3DPM circuit on the GB quite a bit in trying to keep up with the guitarist in my band. And although this wasn't a big deal apparently, it was still a bit bothersome to me. Now, It has been established the guitard in my band is loud, but I was surprised I was having the gain, preamp volume, and master volumes up past 1 O'clock and still having a hard time hearing myself with the STL. When I posted about that, I was told I could push the volume to 3 and still sound musical. So, feeling a bit disheartened, I decided to get a head that people described as similar, but one that many say hits harder and outmuscles many amps with more wattage.

Enter the Mesa Mpulse 600. At practice, I set everything mostly flat, but did cut the low frequencies a little and emphasised the low mids a bit via the para EQ. I turned the gain up to noon and the volume up to noon, played our first tune, and had to turn down to about 11 on the master volume. I had no trouble hearing myself; it was like taking a blanket off my cab. Another thing, the Mesa had this girth to it that made the Streamliner feel weak and fluffy. The Mesa just pushed this beautiful thick low mid punch, whereas in order to be heard with the STL, I had to cut the bass so much that I was stuck with this honk that just didn't sound great despite switching the mid frequencies.

So on one hand you have a 900 watt lightweight amp that I felt was having trouble keeping up and definitely had trouble cutting through the mix. Then you have a 600 watt Mesa that didn't break a sweat and sounded incredible.

Like I said, I don't know if this is real or imagined, but it seemed like the Mesa just had this massive presence that the STL lacked. It could be the difference in voicing of the amps, although many people claim these amps are very similar. Who knows. What I do know is the Mesa is staying with me. I fell in love with it last night.

[willsellout]

I should also note that I play in a pretty heavy (and very loud) hard rock setting, so my issues with the STL are not likely to translate to a lot of people's situations. This isn't about bashing the STL, I just want to give my experiences with these two heads.

[kobass]

No surprise here! It's a well-known fact that 600 Mesa watts=900 everyone else's watts.

[KJung]

Having owned both, I would agree they are quite similar (big, wide and tubey warm). It would be difficult to like one and not the other.

I found the absolute output similar, if you realize that hitting the power management of the Streamliner in no way indicates maximum volume capability.

Also, remember that the actual position of the gain and master volume knobs are in no way indicative of power level and are not comparable across products, due to different gain structures and different volume pot taper designs.

The Mpulse600 is a great amp for that 'clean all tube' tone emulation, and it does have a MUCH deeper low end extension than the Streamliner... it does sound 'bigger'. Enjoy!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kobass

No surprise here! It's a well-known fact that 600 Mesa watts=900 everyone else's watts.

I found that TOTALLY true with the M6, not so much with the MPulse line. IMO and IME there.

[KJung]

PS If you get tired of the size and weight of the MPulse600 (which is not that bad, but hard to deal with once you get used to the small stuff, for me anyway), you might check out the Aguilar TH500.

It has that similar thing going to the MPulse (versus the Streamliner) in that you can keep the low end massive, but still have very aggressive, punchy, growly/grindy midrange response. Loud as heck for the 500 watt rating, and about 4 pounds. VERY impressive head of those who don't need the sizzle up top and like that combination of big down low, but lots of definition to the tone in the midrange.

Edit: Amazing how things progress. I always recommended the 20+ pound MPulse600 for those who dug the Aguilar DB750 but couldn't deal with the size and weight (50 pounds in a lightweight rack). Not I'm recommending the 4 pound TH500 versus the MPulse600 for the same reason. All of these heads have their own 'tone and sound', but they are all in the same tone universe of deep and big sounding with a strong, complex midrange.

[willsellout]

Thanks for all your help with the STL Ken. I realized that the 3DPM isn't indicative of anything negative or having reached maximum output power. It wasn't so much where I had the volume knobs that bothered me, it was the sound that was coming out at that level that I had a problem with. It just had no girth to it because I was having to cut the bass to nothing. I am not smart enough to tell you how my frequencies are interacting with the room and competing with my guitarists frequencies. But I do know the Mesa performed better for my situation.

As far as the size, the small heads are convenient, but I'm fine with the 30 pounds of Mesa. I have a head case coming my way as well, so I don't think i'll be going back to a lightweight head. Especially since I have an older 800RB coming in as well

[KJung]

Originally Posted by willsellout

Thanks for all your help with the STL Ken. I realized that the 3DPM isn't indicative of anything negative or having reached maximum output power. It wasn't so much where I had the volume knobs that bothered me, it was the sound that was coming out at that level that I had a problem with. It just had no girth to it because I was having to cut the bass to nothing. I am not smart enough to tell you how my frequencies are interacting with the room and competing with my guitarists frequencies. But I do know the Mesa performed better for my situation.

As far as the size, the small heads are convenient, but I'm fine with the 30 pounds of Mesa. I have a head case coming my way as well, so I don't think i'll be going back to a lightweight head. Especially since I have an older 800RB coming in as well

+1 I agree that the MPulse tone stack is much, much, much more powerful than the Streamliner, and as long as you like that big, tubey low end, it is hard not to like that head.

The 800rb is a classic also... not much low end, but just screaming lower mids and a very aggressive, grindy top end. Talk about sounding loud with few watts. Gigged one for years back in the day with a Bag End stack.

If you ever get a chance to try the TH500, you might dig it. It is unique (well, I guess everything is unique in a way) in that it is BIG down low, but also very punchy and aggressive in the mid mids. Really sits nice in a mix.

Nothing wrong with the MPulse600 though, and the quality of the thing (the heavy metal case, the knobs, etc.) is really impressive. Enjoy!

[obimark]

While it is loud and sounds good solo, I never particularly felt like the STL is a true 900 watts, I believe that number is an exaggeration of real power. I'd personally rate it at 600watts tops. And the STL 600 at 350-400 watts of real volume.

Is it a good sounding head? sure.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by obimark

While it is loud and sounds good solo, I never particularly felt like the STL is a true 900 watts, I believe that number is an exaggeration of real power. I'd personally rate it at 600watts tops. And the STL 600 at 350-400 watts of real volume.

Is it a good sounding head? sure.

I would agree that is sure doesn't do the massive, open, big, uncompressed low end of, for example, the Mesa M9. Still, more output than most 410's, 212's, etc. could ever handle, so kind of a moot point for me. I never came close to running out of headroom when I gigged one for a couple of years, but, I can say the same thing about my 500 and 600 watt heads also.

[dukeisdog]

Paging georgestrings:


I ran an M-pulse 360 for about a year into my Mesa PH412 and really liked the amp. The built in compressor and the para EQ were really helpful for tone shaping, but these streamliners have really caught my eye, too.

If you're concerned about weight/portability I'd go Genz all the way, but the Mesa is gonna be a killer sounding amp with it's own voice. Just a little bulkier and heavier.

[willsellout]

Yeah the TH500 is right up my alley as well. Right after I traded my STL900, there was a classified thread that popped up for someone wanting to trade a TH500 for a Streamliner. I would have taken that deal in order to try that head. My only concern was the volume. I've heard that it's a super loud head though. Maybe a future purchase.

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by dukeisdog

Paging georgestrings:


I ran an M-pulse 360 for about a year into my Mesa PH412 and really liked the amp. The built in compressor and the para EQ were really helpful for tone shaping, but these streamliners have really caught my eye, too.

If you're concerned about weight/portability I'd go Genz all the way, but the Mesa is gonna be a killer sounding amp with it's own voice. Just a little bulkier and heavier.

Yeah I talked to George about this before I decided on the trade and he offered some insight that turned out to be spot on.

[georgestrings]

I'm glad the M-pulse 600 is working for you, Dan - I figured it might... I really think that the differences between it and the Streamliner wouldn't be as noticeable if you were playing thru a bigger cab than a 212, but whatever works for ya, bud...

For example, I used my Streamliner 900 this past saturday in place of my M-p 600, and it wasn't breaking a sweat to keep up in my loud 2 guitar rock band... However, that was thru a PH810, instead of a 212 - it also holds it's own with the same band thru both my 215s... I do believe both amps are voiced quite similarly - but the additional semi-para EQ of the Mesa makes it extremely versatile...

Like Ken says, both amps do the warm clean tube thing extremely well - I plan on keeping both, and using either the ShuttleMax 12.0 I currently also have, or getting a ShuttleMax 9.2 when I want something a little different...


- georgestrings

[pickles]

Originally Posted by KJung

PS If you get tired of the size and weight of the MPulse600 (which is not that bad, but hard to deal with once you get used to the small stuff, for me anyway), you might check out the Aguilar TH500.

I disagree with that. The TH500 sounds exactly the same as a tone hammer pedal in front of an F500. It sounds like a micro. The mpulse is a whole other thing, and I cant understand 30lbs being a burden for anyone that isn't getting to gigs in a cab.

Agree with OP the mpulse is a beast.

The mpulse is also as good as it gets in the studio, both pre and comp. master quality, good to go.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by pickles

I disagree with that. The TH500 sounds exactly the same as a tone hammer pedal in front of an F500. It sounds like a micro. The mpulse is a whole other thing, and I cant understand 30lbs being a burden for anyone that isn't getting to gigs in a cab.

Agree with OP the mpulse is a beast.

The mpulse is also as good as it gets in the studio, both pre and comp. master quality, good to go.

+1 Surely the TH500 does not have that 'all tube amp' feel of the Streamliner and the MPulse600. However, it might appeal to the player looking for that more fundamental 'bass' tone from their instrument than a more modern voiced head. I moved from an MPulse600 to a Streamliner to a TH500 for my more 'vintage meets modern' needs with my PBass, and have never been happier. I get much more punch and definition live than with either of those heads, but maintain that 'complex midrange' thing that makes a P bass really sing in a mix. IME!

Also, FYI, the variable drive control of the TH500 allows for MUCH more variation in the gain structure than the TH pedal.

However, in general, +1, if a player LOVES the MPulse600, it is a different thing.

Again, on the weight, 35 pounds and a full two space rack isn't that bad, so +1. However, if you can get great tone with 4 pounds in a bag, it can be an eye opener if you gig a lot and do your own load ins. I like the TH500 massively better than my old MPulse600 (on the gig), so zero compromise for me and all positive bonus from the change. Others, of course, will feel the opposite!

Edit: Also, regarding your comment about the Markbass F500, which is still one of my favorite heads of all time, in no way does the F500 provide the low end power and deep bass extension of the TH500 when pushed. So, TONALLY, I agree with you on the TH pedal (as long as you don't rely too much on the drive circuit), but in context where you need to put a pillow under the band (e.g., more indie rock with P Bass type contexts), the TH500 is massive down low at high volumes versus the very nice F500. IME!

[tombowlus]

Keep in mind that there are lots of different ways to test (and report) output power, and there is no set standard in the MI amplification world. In addition, when it comes to amplifying bass notes, how the amps handle the signal peaks and burst power output can make a very audible difference.

My thoughts would be that either of those heads should "git 'er done," and it is important to know how the gain staging works on each of your amps to get the best performance out of each. But what you experienced seems to be a real world situation where the Mpulse 600 did a better job for you, and so I would lean towards "real" versus "imagined."

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

I'm glad the M-pulse 600 is working for you, Dan - I figured it might... I really think that the differences between it and the Streamliner wouldn't be as noticeable if you were playing thru a bigger cab than a 212, but whatever works for ya, bud...

For example, I used my Streamliner 900 this past saturday in place of my M-p 600, and it wasn't breaking a sweat to keep up in my loud 2 guitar rock band... However, that was thru a PH810, instead of a 212 - it also holds it's own with the same band thru both my 215s... I do believe both amps are voiced quite similarly - but the additional semi-para EQ of the Mesa makes it extremely versatile...

Like Ken says, both amps do the warm clean tube thing extremely well - I plan on keeping both, and using either the ShuttleMax 12.0 I currently also have, or getting a ShuttleMax 9.2 when I want something a little different...


- georgestrings

Yeah if I wasn't using the 212, I think it wouldn't have been as obvious. I'm still pretty certain that no matter what cab I had, the Streamliner wasn't my cup of tea. I'm certainly glad that I wound up with the Mesa though, in either case.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by willsellout

Yeah if I wasn't using the 212, I think it wouldn't have been as obvious. I'm still pretty certain that no matter what cab I had, the Streamliner wasn't my cup of tea. I'm certainly glad that I wound up with the Mesa though, in either case.

Yeah, IMO the M-pulse 600 is one of the best bass amps ever made - hard to go wrong there... I would recommend trying different Gain settings - there's a definite difference in how that amp acts and sounds with the Gain set between 11 o'clock and 2 o'clock...

Regarding the Streamliner 900 - I've noticed mine is clearer in a band mix with the 5751 tube in V1, and with the big cabs I typically use, it's plenty adequate volume-wise... Besides the convenience factor, I love the way the DI sounds thru a decent PA - I'm definitely keeping mine... It has nearly erased my desire for an all-tube amp, to be honest - the differences in sound/performance are close enough for my wants/needs...


- georgestrings