GBE 1200 vs. Aguilar db751 vs. Mesa Titan

[jwindham]

Hey Guys,

I have been on a long tone search, and have condensed the possibilities to these three well respected heads. I am a passive p-bass kinda guy, but I love a sound that just comes alive, sits well in the mix in a musical/non-nonharsh way. A sounds that makes you a believe in what you are playing. Maybe Im trying to make up for a lack of technique, but I definitely have some idea of what I like. I feel like I am looking for an amp that doesn't just cause a devastating earthquake, but rather moves you in a musical/emotional way.

I recently tried a new svt-vr, but couldnt get the clarity/quickness I was after. Then tried a svt-cl- again, loud, but still seemed missing something. I have heard a gbe 750 live once with a 51 p-bass that was fat, and very alive sounding. It felt like anything could happen and it would sound beautiful. I tried an aguilar db 750 years ago, but it just seemed too wooly for me/non responsive, but I have heard that the 751 is much more pleasing to some. Finally, there's the mesa titan, which I hear has a fat tone, that can get some cool overdrive.

Has anyone played all three heads? Any subjective comments to compare them? Thanks for your help!

[johnk_10]

if you liked the benz, and think the others are a bit too slow or wooly, it appears that you like a brighter type of tone, which i find is part of the benz's tone. i have a GBE-600 and it's definitely fast and clean, but, to me, it's a little stiff and sterile compared to my other heads. IME, it's best to try one on a gig or two to get a better idea of which amp best suits your needs.

[thisSNsucks]

I haven't played the Genz-Benz or Mesa, but I own the Aguilar DB751 and love it.

I never played a DB750, so I can't compare, but I'd say that the DB751 is still very wooly and pillowy sounding stock. I actually replaced the tubes with some Telefunken's and it cleaned up the tone nicely, but it still isn't what I would consider as very bright or quick.

[tombowlus]

When I reviewed the GBE 1200 back in issue #1, I did compare it to my DB750. Here's a snippet:

The DB750 was definitely more full sounding on the low and low-mids, but the 1200 was more clear, quick, and articulate throughout its range. The Aguilar was a tad darker sounding, and almost syrupy smooth and rich. Each head had a good deal of tonal flexibility, and with some EQ, you could get either one to sound much like the other one. However, the DB750 couldn't quite get the level of articulation offered by the Genz-Benz, and the GBE 1200 couldn't quite match the low end heft of the Aguilar.

Keep in mind, this was comparing the GBE 1200 to the DB750, not the DB751 (though from what I heard at NAMM, they are definitely in the same ballpark).

Since this review, I have picked up a Titan V-12. The Mesa stands between the other two, though closer to the Aguilar side of the line. It is extremely versatile, and definitely capable of a much more overdriven tone than the other two. The Mesa probably has the most midrange richness and texture of the bunch.

Those are three very worthy options, in my book.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jwindham

Hey Guys,

I have been on a long tone search, and have condensed the possibilities to these three well respected heads. I am a passive p-bass kinda guy, but I love a sound that just comes alive, sits well in the mix in a musical/non-nonharsh way. A sounds that makes you a believe in what you are playing. Maybe Im trying to make up for a lack of technique, but I definitely have some idea of what I like. I feel like I am looking for an amp that doesn't just cause a devastating earthquake, but rather moves you in a musical/emotional way.

I recently tried a new svt-vr, but couldnt get the clarity/quickness I was after. Then tried a svt-cl- again, loud, but still seemed missing something. I have heard a gbe 750 live once with a 51 p-bass that was fat, and very alive sounding. It felt like anything could happen and it would sound beautiful. I tried an aguilar db 750 years ago, but it just seemed too wooly for me/non responsive, but I have heard that the 751 is much more pleasing to some. Finally, there's the mesa titan, which I hear has a fat tone, that can get some cool overdrive.

Has anyone played all three heads? Any subjective comments to compare them? Thanks for your help!

I have, and your description makes total sense. While the tone is fine, I'm pretty unimpressed with the volume/low end to 'size/weight' ration of the GB1200... that thing is a monster in size and weight.

IF you are in a situation where you really like the tone of the GB1200 AND are using two 4ohm cabs, the GB Shuttle Max 12 is simply killer (the downside is you can't bridge the two 600 watt amps... so you need two 4ohm cabs to get the full wump out of it). Every bit as much ooomph as the massive 1200, same front end, and a fraction of the size and weight.

I would also check into the Carvin B2000... another clean, bright, massive sounding head that is relatively lightweight.

The Mesa M9 is also in your tone goal universe... deep, but also articulate with nice top end.

There really is no reason to go for a 3 rack space lead sled at this point. I would say the DB750/751 would be worth it IF you liked that tone profile (I hate it myself... the wooly thing you describe), since that head has a unique voice that I haven't heard anywhere else. For a tighter, brighter, but still big down low sound, the two space heads above will get you there.

[gastric]

Sounds like you don't really like the heavily tube based sound which is what gives you that wooliness that can also rob some of your note definition. Maybe look into something that has a single tube as they usually seem to give you a little smoothness but without all the wooliness in the low end. Unfortunately you lose all of that super awesome tube saturation. But I'm sure there's some middle-ground type of amp out there for you.

I personally love the gritty almost-overdriven sound of the Mesa Big Block and Titan. I just sold my Aguilar DB751 and have my Big Block up for sale and have finally decided on the Titan as my amp of choice. Lots of great tones directly from the amp and footswitch. Tubey clean tone and dark overdrive off Channel 1, always balls out overdrive/fuzz off Channel 2 by pulling the OD on permanently oon the head front control panel (happens to be the way I currently have it setup). Plus you get mute and solo on the footswitch. Good stuff.

I did like the Aguilar, and thought the EQ section was better than on the Titan. In particular the Highs on the Aguilar seemed to affect only the highs while the Mesa High control seems to cut into the mids too much. The Aguilar was also extremely simple, not that it's a bad thing.

But taking the whole package into consideration the Mesa won for me.

Note if you're buying used Mesa's 5 year transferrable warranty is the bomb. Locally for me there's two authorized Mesa repair shops if I ever need them. In contrast Aguilar has a 10 year non-transferrable warranty. But according to the warranty details you have to ship it to their NY factory for all repairs AND pay to have them ship it back to you. That's just crazy considering the price on those things. Can't say I've heard of anyone making you pay THEIR shipping to return warranty work to you.

Mesa has a lot to offer. And their smaller 2U heads look totally badass in the vintage headcases. The Titan would probably be too heavy in one of their 3U headcases. But I absolutely LOVE that classic head look compared to some metal-and-black gear rack.

[jwindham]

Thank you everyone for your replies. They were VERY informative, and helpful; you guys are the best!
Now, just need to take that leap of faith, and try one out. I am leaning to starting out with the Mesa Titan, as I love the idea of getting some badass overdrive without pedals. I will definitely post my thoughts after trying!

[gastric]

If you already carry a pedal board with overdrive/fuzz then you won't likely leverage the Titan's feature set. But would still be worthwhile if you needed all of it's 4ohm power. Otherwise I'd steer you towards a BigBlock or some other Mesa head like the Mpulse 600.

[jwindham]

Thanks Gastric! I definitely want all the power I can get into that 4ohm load

[KsPiNeSh]

My GBE 1200 has been my go-to for years now. I've tried a lot of other amps in that time, including Mesa and Aguilar, and found that they just couldn't match the tonal qualities that I love... the brightness, edge, and clarity just wasn't there. I agree with the other assessments that put the Aggie and Mesa on the "tubier" end of the spectrum, and loving the Genz sound as much as I do that type of sound just doesn't do it for me.

That being said, I do really enjoy my Mesa Carbine heads, which are a tad smoother through the mids and a little bigger down low than my GBE 1200 but still retain the quickness and pop. You might want to give those a look as well.

[jwindham]

Thanks for the info. I will say that I did try a mesa m6carbine with a passive p-bass once. I felt that it was very punchy, and loud, but it also felt very "clinical" with a rather hard upper mid bite. The M6 seemed to want to push my sound in one direction, not allowing me to "explore" tonalities as much. Still, it was a very "potent" head. Nice lows, but seemed a bit lacking in those essential low mids IMHO.

This is very subjective, I know. This was into a single mesa 212 4ohm cab. Now, I have NOT heard the M9 carbine, and something tells me that the slight extra headroom/eq might win my affection. I certainly welcome any thoughts/comments. I am gathering as many points as I can before making my final decision. Thank you all!

[johnk_10]

i found the M6 to be the same way, hence, not my cup of tea. it seemed kinda stiff and harsh sounding to me.

[KsPiNeSh]

Interesting take - I would personally consider the GBE 1200 more "clinical" than the Mesa, but I see where you're coming from. The M9 definitely has more EQ control, and just engaging the active EQ (even flat) seems to brighten the tone a bit.

One thing that I forgot to mention is my love of the multiple preamp channels of the GBE 1200. I'm not a distortion guy, so I'm not really sure what you would consider badass overdrive, but I have mine set up to generate a good amount of distortion while blended with the FET channel to maintain the girth of the tone. I daresay that it gets a pretty decent buzzsaw type of distortion through the tube channel, and that could potentially get better with a different pre tube.

[jwindham]

Very cool- I like the ability to get a thick, yet harmonically rich overdrive. For live purposes, you seem to gravitate towards the genz. Would you go so far as to say that it "sits in the mix" better on the stage?

Also, do you feel that it makes your playing/style come "alive" better than any amp- "to be heard and felt"? I have heard many people describe the gbe 1200 as just having something special that you can't quite put words to...perhaps its musical articulation?

And one final question...do you feel your tone is ever "sterile" with the gbe 1200? Thanks for your help!

[esoxhntr]

Originally Posted by jwindham

Would you go so far as to say that it "sits in the mix" better on the stage?:

Definitely yes!

Originally Posted by jwindham

Also, do you feel that it makes your playing/style come "alive" better than any amp- "to be heard and felt"? I have heard many people describe the gbe 1200 as just having something special that you can't quite put words to...perhaps its musical articulation?:

Yes to both.

Originally Posted by jwindham

And one final question...do you feel your tone is ever "sterile" with the gbe 1200?:

Never.

A couple of things about the GBE1200. If you don't mind carrying the weight, it is a near perfect solution. Tons of power, tons of features, 2 ohm capable, a very comprehensive and effective set of tones controls, and the unique ability to combine tube and clean channels. Win, win, win, win, and win. Oh, and it's likely to be found cheaper too. The downside of the GBE1200 is that, unlike the Aguilar, every bass you put into it is not going to sound great.

At one time I had 5 basses - two of them sounded awesome through the a GBE750, but all of them sounded very good through an Aguilar AG500. The AG500 and the DB750 do not sound the same, but I decided to go with the 500 at the time because it was a better gigging amp for me. Fast forward a couple of years - I thinned my collection down to two basses, and happened to get a chance to play them both through a GBE1200. I immediately traded for the GBE1200.

Bottom line is this, the GBE adds very little color to your basses. If your basses don't have a sound you like, the GBE1200 won't help that. Also, I don't think that the GBE gets along with all types of cabs; it absolutely shines with Bergantino stuff - HS, HT, NV, not so sure about the AE though.

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by jwindham

Very cool- I like the ability to get a thick, yet harmonically rich overdrive. For live purposes, you seem to gravitate towards the genz. Would you go so far as to say that it "sits in the mix" better on the stage?

Also, do you feel that it makes your playing/style come "alive" better than any amp- "to be heard and felt"? I have heard many people describe the gbe 1200 as just having something special that you can't quite put words to...perhaps its musical articulation?

And one final question...do you feel your tone is ever "sterile" with the gbe 1200? Thanks for your help!

While my Mesas do sound very good live, I do prefer my GBE 1200 onstage. The primary reason is that the edgy mids really pop out live and I never have any issue being heard. Also, the GBEs higher crossover point on the low end IME and IMO prevents soundmen from making me sound boomy and overwhelming, which is incredibly important to me (they can't mess up what isn't there ).

While I agree with the comments about the 1200 leaving the tone relatively uncolored, I can't say that I've ever had any basses that sounded bad through it (and I've had plenty). To my ear the amp does sound very clear, vibrant, and "alive", which I do personally find inspiring. The amp is very dynamic and conveys the natural characteristics of my instruments very well. Musical articulation is a great way to describe it.

I would never consider my Genz tone sterile, but some people equate a quick, uncolored SS type sound to being "sterile", which is where my earlier comment came from. I think it always sound pretty rich and alive, but that is also the type of tone that speaks to me. Ken accuratey pointed out that the amp is definitely heavy, but for me it's totally worth its weight as I haven't yet found anything else that does it for me like this one, not even a Shuttle. Since you know you loved the live tone of the 750, why not start there and move "darker" if it turns out to not be your thing?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh

While my Mesas do sound very good live, I do prefer my GBE 1200 onstage. The primary reason is that the edgy mids really pop out live and I never have any issue being heard. Also, the GBEs higher crossover point on the low end IME and IMO prevents soundmen from making me sound boomy and overwhelming, which is incredibly important to me (they can't mess up what isn't there ).

While I agree with the comments about the 1200 leaving the tone relatively uncolored, I can't say that I've ever had any basses that sounded bad through it (and I've had plenty). To my ear the amp does sound very clear, vibrant, and "alive", which I do personally find inspiring. The amp is very dynamic and conveys the natural characteristics of my instruments very well. Musical articulation is a great way to describe it.

I would never consider my Genz tone sterile, but some people equate a quick, uncolored SS type sound to being "sterile", which is where my earlier comment came from. I think it always sound pretty rich and alive, but that is also the type of tone that speaks to me. Ken accuratey pointed out that the amp is definitely heavy, but for me it's totally worth its weight as I haven't yet found anything else that does it for me like this one, not even a Shuttle. Since you know you loved the live tone of the 750, why not start there and move "darker" if it turns out to not be your thing?

+1 to a number of your points above.

Of course, saying the GB1200 is 'flat' and doesn't color your sound is a bit silly. The Tube and FET channel sound quite different... which is the one that is uncolored I find that head, like most other heads, quite strongly pre voiced.

However, I think what is being heard is the very bright, open top end that really allows differences across instruments to be heard. Amps like the DB750 and some of the Mesa heads that are more attenuated up top and also have more bloom down low (I also agree with your point about that hi pass filter being set relatively high on the Genz stuff) tends to mask a lot of the subtle differences among basses.

I view the 1200 as more 'transparent' (meaning to me that it reproduces a wide range of frequencies) versus 'flat' (meaning that it reproduces each frequency at the relatively same volume across the spectrum.

To the OP's question, it is anything by sterile and clinical... bright yes, tight down low, yes, but nice warmth and 'musical' voicing in the mids to my ear.

Nice sounding head, but my god, it is a monster in depth and weight.

[pickles]

For me its an easy choice: Titan. I agree with Tom's assessment of it being between the 750 and 1200, but with more textured mids, and to me more TONE than any other head I've had with EQ points in just the right places. The lows are solid and round not boomy or flabby, the highs are in a great spot somewhere between shiny and edgy (you can make it shine by boosting the highs and cutting the highest mids with the active mid). And that's just the clean sounds. Even if you never use the overdrive, the Titan is an amazing head. Its also not overly heavy and gets stupid loud "on 3".

[jwindham]

Great comments from all! It truly sounds that the gbe 1200 and the Titan both kick some serious Bass Boo-tay. I liked KJung's comment about different basses truly sounding DIFFERENT with the Genz. To my ears, it seems that the gbe series captures what the instrument truly sounds like, while also delivering plenty of "meat & potatoes" to actually ENJOY it too. Sounds like the Titan does this very well too now.

KsPinesh: I do like the idea of starting brighter (gbe 1200) then moving into darker territory (titan) if I feel the need. The higher crossover point on the gbe's lowend also sounds appealing. I do not want to swallow the stage. I find that a good bass sound does not aggravate your bandmates. Rather, they enjoy what they are hearing and feel the fundamental support a great bass player/tone can provide.

I did have a chance to try the shuttle 12.0, and thought it was a wicked amp. Perhaps the best class D amp I have ever played. But, in my experience the GBE line, while much heavier, does have a certain authority/girth/solidity to the notes that is hard to match.

If the GBE 1200 does not make my head spin, I'll definitely give the Titan a whirl.

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by KJung

Of course, saying the GB1200 is 'flat' and doesn't color your sound is a bit silly. The Tube and FET channel sound quite different... which is the one that is uncolored I find that head, like most other heads, quite strongly pre voiced.

However, I think what is being heard is the very bright, open top end that really allows differences across instruments to be heard. Amps like the DB750 and some of the Mesa heads that are more attenuated up top and also have more bloom down low (I also agree with your point about that hi pass filter being set relatively high on the Genz stuff) tends to mask a lot of the subtle differences among basses.

I view the 1200 as more 'transparent' (meaning to me that it reproduces a wide range of frequencies) versus 'flat' (meaning that it reproduces each frequency at the relatively same volume across the spectrum.

Well-stated and right-on, as usual The other nice thing about the high-pass point is that the LF extend feature on the GBE series allows you to dial in extra extension down low if you so desire. I find it to be very usable throughout the range and, when I do utilize it, typically have it set between 9:00 and noon.

Originally Posted by jwindham

Great comments from all! It truly sounds that the gbe 1200 and the Titan both kick some serious Bass Boo-tay. I liked KJung's comment about different basses truly sounding DIFFERENT with the Genz. To my ears, it seems that the gbe series captures what the instrument truly sounds like, while also delivering plenty of "meat & potatoes" to actually ENJOY it too. Sounds like the Titan does this very well too now.

KsPinesh: I do like the idea of starting brighter (gbe 1200) then moving into darker territory (titan) if I feel the need. The higher crossover point on the gbe's lowend also sounds appealing. I do not want to swallow the stage. I find that a good bass sound does not aggravate your bandmates. Rather, they enjoy what they are hearing and feel the fundamental support a great bass player/tone can provide.

I did have a chance to try the shuttle 12.0, and thought it was a wicked amp. Perhaps the best class D amp I have ever played. But, in my experience the GBE line, while much heavier, does have a certain authority/girth/solidity to the notes that is hard to match.

If the GBE 1200 does not make my head spin, I'll definitely give the Titan a whirl.

Sounds like a plan. No matter how it turns out, there really isn't a "bad" option here - just different flavors of good. Whatever your flavor, it's always fun taste-testing