Geddy Lee & Chris Squire sound

[robchorz]

How can I get the Geddy Lee & Chris Squire sound of the 70's. I have the Rickenbacker 4003 and Fender and Ampeg amps. What should the EQ settings be set to to acheive that sound (Low, Mid Lo, Mid Hi, Hi, Low boost and Hi boost)? Thanks. Please be specific and offer your opinions. Please do not give open ended answers that ask more questions. Thanks!

[JxBass]

I can't speak to the Geddy tone but Squire had a pretty sophisticated and custom effects system that went between that Ric and amp.

[Gizmot]

You've definitely got the right bass - but do you have the right speaker cabs? Back in the 70's, Chris Squier used Sunn amps with 2 double-15 boxes. No doubt, his setup changed over time.
I just recently saw Yes on a TV special, but I couldn't tell what he was playing through. I can tell you that the bass and the speakers are going to change the sound more than the amplifier will.

[JxBass]

Yes, he's used Sunn, Ampeg, and other gear. And he uses other non-Ric basses and still has that Squire sound. I contend that the effects unit still has a lot to do with it.

[Jonathan1990]

He also has a particular technique, which he describes in this interview: YouTube - Chris Squire "Star Licks" Interview
(2:35)

[IvanMike]

having had a 4001 for a long time, I have to say a rick kind of sounds like a rick.

AFAIK, Squier is always using one, but Geddy used one up to about moving pictures, although most of MP was on a Jazz.

A huge part of the tone of both of those guys on tape was all the great engineering and producing. I think in many cases the amps had less to do with it.

To my ear, the Yes sound seemed to be almost all neck pickup (i'm sure it wasn't, but having had one, the neck pickup sounds like that). A large amount of the Rush sound also seems to be neck pickup. IME, the bridge pickup adds a bit of flavor to the rick tone, but the neck pickup gets you the rick tone.

I would just start with your amp flat and mess around with the eq slowly. Your technique will have an awful lot to do with the tone - probably a lot more than the amp will.

[Ric5]

Search for the thread titled
"Geddy's bass tone"

[rickdog]

There's some information at chrissquire.com (click on Tech Notes). I don't know how recent it is, but it says in part "Marshall 100 watt head with a Marshall 4 x 12 speaker cabinet (over there), Two Ampeg SVT-2 Pro heads, Two SVT- 8 x10 speaker cabinets." I think back in the early days he used pretty much the same sort of thing, with variations on the Marshall (Fender Showman comes to mind, but I could be wrong).

Try using the Ric-o-sound output to separate the neck and bridge pickups. Run the bridge pickup to a tube Marshall or Fender, and crank it up so it's distorting a bit. If your 4003 is new enough to have the "vintage cap" push-pull switch, use the cap to cut some of the low end; or roll off the bass on the amp. That will give you the bright, punchy high end of the tone. Run the neck pickup into something bigger and beefier that can move some low frequency air. Balance the two amps, tweak the EQ a bit, and try playing Yours Is No Disgrace. It should be just about right.

But any tube amp with a front end similar to an old Marshall or Fender should do a pretty good job. I used to play my 4001 through just a 100W Marshall. I patched the normal and bright inputs together so the bass went to both channels (didn't use the Ric-o-sound). Cranked to the edge of distortion it was just the right volume for smaller bar gigs, and had a lot of that Chris Squire vibe.

[Brian_L]

You might try a Tech 21 VT Bass. I got one a couple weeks ago, and I have been slowly sneaking up on a passable facsimile.

Brian

[Bigjohn]

There are super ancient pics of Yes/Squire from The Yes Album (and before) where Squire has Fender Showman amps with 2x15 cabs and other stuff but ...
In the classic 70's prog Yes period from around Fragile through Going For The One, Squire used 2 Sunn 6x12 cabs - that's right, 6x12 (not 6x10). They were tall and fairly wide and somewhat unusual.
For amps, he used an early 70's Sunn Coliseum Lead head (solid state) for Fragile, Close To The Edge, Tales From Topgraphic Oceans, Relayer and beyond.
He also added a Marshall 100W Superbass for his distorted sound starting with Tales From Topographic Oceans sides 2-4 and for a lot of Relayer (Sound Chaser and Gates Of Delerium) and beyond. He usually had the Marshall head right on top of the Sunn which was on top of one of his Sunn 6x12 cabs.
I don't know how (or if) he switched between the amps or if each had one Sunn 6x12 cab or what.
He ran his pickups stereo but I don't know if he ran them through separate amps. I think he ran them through separate channels (each with its own eq setting) on the Sunn, which is a 2 channel amp. How the marshall played in, I don't know either but you could certainly hear it on songs like Ritual and Sound Chaser. That was the tube Marshall. It was a very different (and awesome) sound. He used that distorted Marshall sound a lot on his solo album, Fish Out Of Water, from that same (Relayer) period.
On the Yessongs movie he has the solid state Sunn Coliseum and the two Sunn 6x 12 cabs. That was the Close To The Edge tour and before he added the marshall.
Starting with the Tales tour, he had the same rig but with the Marshall head also, for his distorted sound.
I saw Yes live 5 times on separate tours over around 5 or so years back then (starting with Tales) and he had that same rig every time for at least 4 of them. The last time I saw Yes was "in the round" on the Tormato tour and his amp wasn't visible.
He had 2 distinct and very different sounds then:
The relatively clean and trebly Fragile/CloseToTheEdge/TalesSide1 sound
and the less trebly and quite distorted TalesSides2-4/Relayer... sound. He also alternated these 2 basic sounds on songs on both Going For The One and Tormato.
There is an old 1973 Squire interview from Guitar Player magazine (also reprinted in a book called Bass Heroes) where Squire gives his exact amp settings (on the Sunn) but it won't do you much good because that was on an old amp that you don't have.
Different amps are voiced differently, so I hate to be vague but you will have to use your ear.
One thing for sure, Squire has a very hard and agressive attack and he is not afraid to let those strings buzz. Listen to Close To The Edge, he's hitting hard and in a certain way to accentuate that bouncy grind sound. You will have to experiment. He also used brand new, bright roundwound strings, of course. Back in those days it was Rotosound Swing Bass for both he and Geddy.
I was a big Squire fan back in HS, ha ha, bet you can't tell.

Originally Posted by Gizmot

You've definitely got the right bass - but do you have the right speaker cabs? Back in the 70's, Chris Squier used Sunn amps with 2 double-15 boxes. No doubt, his setup changed over time.
I just recently saw Yes on a TV special, but I couldn't tell what he was playing through. I can tell you that the bass and the speakers are going to change the sound more than the amplifier will.

[Metalbasshippy]

Rotosound swing bass 66s were the string of choice for both

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by JxBass

I can't speak to the Geddy tone but Squire had a pretty sophisticated and custom effects system that went between that Ric and amp.

Squires tone is actually quite simple to achive gear wise. Look at Miguelbass on youtube, he use the sansamp BDDI for most of the time. miguel plays the Squire sig Rick, but also jazz and other basses. He nails hte Squire tone every time.
Of course new set of roto's will help or using the Rick o sound via Ampeg SVT 2 pro and the Marshall 100 rig as Chris use's today will help.
Again, Miguel tend to sett everything on his BDDI around 12 and adjust it a bit until he nails the tone. Chris use Dunlop Herco flex 75 and 50 picks.

Geddy use sansamp RBI, and now Orange AD200. While I've no idea for how is his tone with the Orange, you could use a sansamp BDDI or VT to get his Rick/ Jazz tone. I've also heard some nail his tone with a Rick and GK or with the Geddy jazz and a sansamp thing. Use fresh rounds for Geddy or Squire's tone.

[Hydromantic]

Hello!

I'm wondering if you would use a passive or active bass for a Chris Squire sound? I'm still searching for this kind of sound and I'm not sure of what's best actually and with the VT Bass, it doesn't sound the same at all.

Any suggestions of VT Bass settings for Chris Squire tone?

Thanks

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by Hydromantic

Hello!

I'm wondering if you would use a passive or active bass for a Chris Squire sound? I'm still searching for this kind of sound and I'm not sure of what's best actually and with the VT Bass, it doesn't sound the same at all.

Any suggestions of VT Bass settings for Chris Squire tone?

Thanks

Chris use a 4001 Rick about 80-90% of the time and most of his other basses are passive, so passive for sure is best.
If you do not have a Rick bass then a jazz bass should be the next best thing I think. I do not have a VT pedal but a PBDDI, so I can't help you with the settings. I will guess that you need to start from the "SVT settings" with just a bit more drive and character. Most of his tone is due to his Herco pick and the way he hold the pick, thus just a tiny bit of the tip sticking out.

[Hydromantic]

Thanks Duke21! I should experiment with my bass on passive mode then.

I'll keep on trying until I find a good setting

[lowendblues]

For a reasonable Squire tone, Rickenbacker > roundwound strings> low action, (fret buzz)> play with a pick > and volume.

Cranking a Rickenbacker bass really brings out the tone in my opinion.

[Duke21]

Originally Posted by lowendblues

For a reasonable Squire tone, Rickenbacker > roundwound strings> low action, (fret buzz)> play with a pick > and volume.

Cranking a Rickenbacker bass really brings out the tone in my opinion.

I don't think Chris have that low action as many tend to think.

[Floyd Eye]

All but about 2 songs on Moving Pictures were recorded with either the double neck Ric or the Jetglo 4001 and Geddy used them almost exclusively for the resulting tour.

[Ric5]

Half of moving pictures was the 72 jazz and half was the 4001. Geddy sounded about the same with both basses.

To get the classic Geddy or Squire tone you will need some distortion and strong attack. Also round wound strings and turn up the treble.

[Hydromantic]

I just remembered there's a setting for Yes in the manual but I don't think it sounds that good...