genz benz 6.0 ?

WCHIII · #1 01-01-2013, 10:18 AM

I had a gig last night and used my Genz Benz 6.0 and a Fender 410 shuttle. The cab is 4ohm so I was getting the full 600 watts out of the cab. I was all the way up on the master with the gain up enough to still get the clean sound I was looking for with no grind. Now granted, we were in a huge barn looking thing at a winery but still.... The guitar player wanted more bass and I had no more. I know the quality

of the Fender shuttle so what I would like to know is, If I get upgrade cabinet/cabinets will I get more volume with the same settings on the amp? Are all amps rated for 600 watts the same? Do I need a new amp as well? I need some help making a decison on what to buy. I've had my mind made up seems like 20 times on what to get and Im still confused. Ive decided on Ampeg, Trace Elliot, Mark and still dont know what to do....Someone please help this drummer out!! happy new year all....

Etienned · #2 01-01-2013, 10:21 AM

RickenBoogie · #3 01-01-2013, 10:30 AM

Yes, eq, and a better cab. A pair of 8 ohm cabs would be ideal, like 2x 8 ohm 212's.

agedhorse · #4 01-01-2013, 10:46 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by Fender Shuttle. Perhaps you are confusing the Fender cabinet with the Genz Benz Shuttle?

By the time you are delivering 600 watts to most 410 cabinets, you are well into power compression which means that little of the additional power gets translated into increased volume. This is especially true at the lower frequencies where the electromechanical limits become more significant.

IMO, if you need more lot frequency spl, you would be better served by additional speaker capabilities such as 2 x 410 cabinets (would need to be 8 ohm) which would get you probably another 3 or 4 dB of spl plus improved low frequency extension.

Another option would be to take advantage of pa support including an appropriate monitor for the drummer.

jlepre · #5 01-01-2013, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCHIII

I was all the way up on the master with the gain up enough to still get the clean sound I was looking for with no grind.

Huh?
All the way up on the master?

rapidfirerob · #6 01-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Another cabinet, certainly, as Agedhorse said. I have two GK Neo 112 cabs, and it is plenty loud. For large rooms or outdoor festivals, it always goes through the PA.

Etienned · #7 01-01-2013, 01:32 PM

What are your preamp section settings ? With the DB I want to have a clean tone so I turn gain way down (9oclock) but preamp volume is at the max. Master volume between 12 and 3 o'clock.

WCHIII · #8 01-01-2013, 01:53 PM

my ooops....Fender Rumble....

WCHIII · #9 01-01-2013, 01:58 PM

I had the gain up to where I could a good clean sound, the preamp volume was around 12 oclock, the bass was cut a tad mids boosted a little and the treble was cut a tad. I had all three bass,mid, & high boosts activated. I pretty much leave those activated all the time. I would imagine that 95% of my problem is operator error that I hope I can iron out as I learn.

Tvrtko · #10 01-01-2013, 01:59 PM

Silly 10" speakers and trillion watts. And people are trying and trying... It just makes me laugh..... You need more bass? Get yourself 320 and 408 . Of course - Acoustic and you will see your guitar player just opening mouth to let his tongue hit the floor.
Why people never learn basic things before they spend money on crap?

agedhorse · #11 01-01-2013, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCHIII

I had the gain up to where I could a good clean sound, the preamp volume was around 12 oclock, the bass was cut a tad mids boosted a little and the treble was cut a tad. I had all three bass,mid, & high boosts activated. I pretty much leave those activated all the time. I would imagine that 95% of my problem is operator error that I hope I can iron out as I learn.

The mid filter is a cut and not a boost. Try leaving this filter off as it could compromise articulation under high volume conditions.

Etienned · #12 01-01-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCHIII

I had the gain up to where I could a good clean sound,

9h ? 10.... 12h ?

Turn off the mid scoop at least... Mids are your friend.

agedhorse · #13 01-01-2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvrtko

Silly 10" speakers and trillion watts. And people are trying and trying... It just makes me laugh..... You need more bass? Get yourself 320 and 408 . Of course - Acoustic and you will see your guitar player just opening mouth to let his tongue hit the floor.
Why people never learn basic things before they spend money on crap?

The OP is trying to understand why he is having difficulty. I don't see how your post is helpful to him (or anyone else for that matter) in the least.

Tvrtko · #14 01-01-2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agedhorse

The OP is trying to understand why he is having difficulty. I don't see how your post is helpful to him (or anyone else for that matter) in the least.

There are no difficulty, except high expectations from equipment that is doing exactly what is supposed to do... You cannot expect anything from 10" speakers outside. I use 10" for my headphones.

Hobobob · #15 01-01-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tvrtko

There are no difficulty, except high expectations from equipment that is doing exactly what is supposed to do... You cannot expect anything from 10" speakers outside. I use 10" for my headphones.

...?
OP, you're pushing a cab that just isn't very efficient. Not to mention, with all filters engaged you're bumping lows and highs while scooping mids. That's a wonderful recipe for being drowned out. Disengage all filters to start. Bump the treble knob back up to noon if it sounds too dark this way. That amp cuts through a mix like mad with everything set to noon, so you gotta start back at the start and then adjust from there. LEAVE THE FILTERS OFF!!!

MarkA · #16 01-01-2013, 02:40 PM

I've played the same room with 200 watts and been fine and played it with 600 and run out of room. A lot depends on the mix, out in the house and on stage, and how smart/sensitive people are being about it. I'm not familiar with the Rumble 410 (though I'm not a fan of the combos) and don't know what your guitarist is using or how the guitar rig is EQed. If it sounds like there's a bass player already when the guitarist is playing solo, he/she needs to get out of your way and take some low end out of the guitar sound.

Leave the mid-scoop off, as has been said. I'd leave the LF boost off to start, as well. In fact, I'd start with everything flat. Personally, I'd turn the gain up to where the clip light is just starting to come on with your hardest hits, then turn the master up. You'll reach the limits of the amp before the master is all the way up, but, in my experience, I've gotten the best (most detailed, but still clean) sound that way.

Now you can start to experiment with the EQ. A little mid-boost in the right frequency band can go a long way to getting you heard. Cutting certain frequencies (low ones) can allow you to turn up louder, and you might find certain combinations of the LF boost and bass control (boost or cut) to your liking, but remember that lower frequencies will cost you more juice and take more out of your cab as well. If you can get a tone you like at a volume that will work now, great. If not, time to look at changing cabs and, possibly, your head.

I will say that I never considered a 6.0 myself, thinking it a little weak/low-end shy compared to a 9.0 or some of the other offerings out there, but there is a bassist I know in a LOUD band who uses one to great effect through a 410 with a Geddy Lee Jazz. I've played his bass through his rig (not sure of the 410, sorry) and it sounds fat and articulate. He does use a compressor - not sure how much that comes into play - but he and his bandmates also know how to set their sound individually and together to complement rather than compete with each other -- never had a problem hearing him with drums, two guitars, and keys.

Finally, how you set the pan/EQ on you bass can do a lot to help/hurt you getting heard.

Good luck -- it's not always easy!

MarkA · #17 01-01-2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCHIII

I had the gain up to where I could a good clean sound, the preamp volume was around 12 oclock, the bass was cut a tad mids boosted a little and the treble was cut a tad. I had all three bass,mid, & high boosts activated. I pretty much leave those activated all the time. I would imagine that 95% of my problem is operator error that I hope I can iron out as I learn.

As has been said, that mid switch is a cut, not a boost. The mid boost I referred to is with the sweepable mid control (knobs for gain and frequency), but start flat and go from there.

WCHIII · #18 01-01-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agedhorse

The mid filter is a cut and not a boost. Try leaving this filter off as it could compromise articulation under high volume conditions.

Thanks...pm coming your way

Not yet · #19 01-01-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienned

What are your preamp section settings ? With the DB I want to have a clean tone so I turn gain way down (9oclock) but preamp volume is at the max. Master volume between 12 and 3 o'clock.

Similar set, but never have to go above 12 w main volume in 2 Neox12s...key seems to be pre volume up w little gain

WCHIII · #20 01-01-2013, 03:13 PM

[quote=Tvrtko;13653644]There are no difficulty, except high expectations from equipment that is doing exactly what is supposed to do... You cannot expect anything from 10" speakers outside. I use 10" for my headphones.[/QUOTE

I sure see a lot of 410 cabinets outside...