Genz Benz GBE 1200 - Power issue?

[jmattbassplaya]

Hey guys,

I`m looking into possibly getting one of these amps and when I mentioned it to a fellow bass friend he said to be careful with those because they are known to have power transformers that act funny under unregulated voltage situations.

I`m just curious if this is true or not, what that even means, etc... I know I`ll probably be playing in a few dodgy places since half of everything in Knoxville looks like it was built before the 50`s so I wouldn`t expect their electricity to be the best... That said, I`ve honestly never even heard this problem mentioned on here before in regards to this amp so I don`t know.

Thanks guys

[jmattbassplaya]

Really? No responses?

[Dan Knowlton]

The wiring in part of my house is from the 50's (2 conductor, no ground) and I never had a problem with my GBE-1200.

Dan K.

[lefty007]

I think that problem has surfaced here in the forum a few times. I had a Shuttle 6.0 that sure was picky about current quality, and would not come on unless the power was good.

I suggest getting an answer from the source and calling Genz-Benz directly. They are nice people.

[KsPiNeSh]

I've gigged my 1200 for 4 years in some pretty seedy places and never had an issue. Never worried about it either.

[Implosion]

Is the electrical grid really that bad over there? I mean, I've never seen any TB'er from the old continent complain about these kinds of problems.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Implosion

Is the electrical grid really that bad over there? I mean, I've never seen any TB'er from the old continent complain about these kinds of problems.

No, it's not. A handful of Tbers have had issues with Class D poweramps in some more seedy locations.

I've owned a variety of amps from GB over the last 4 years and never had a power issue of any type.

[agedhorse]

Let me put an end to this rumor right now.

There is absolutely nothing true or accurate about this comment. I believe it was due to something he or a friend read in a review in BGM magazine where they tried to measure the power on a 1200 with a poor (unregulated) AC power source, and were not able to do so accurately. The larger the amp, the greater the deviation from rated power due to the Vsquared factor in the power equation. Unfortunately we were the first large amp tested with the improper procedure and their tech didn't recognize the importance of input power voltage in the measurement of power and it's (squared) effect on the results

When I analyzed the test set-up, they did not follow the industry standard practice of using a regulated or fixed input voltage and for large power amps of all brands and models, this MUST be done because the output power on all conventional amps falls with a dropping power source voltage. Other major issues were also uncovered when analyzing the test procedure, Tom and his crew have been revising and revisiting their approach to testing and we hope to discuss this more at NAMM to try to come up with some tests that relate better between lab and real world performance conditions across all brands and especially with the advent of the newer class D products, amp types.

The 1200 delivers at least 1200 watts RMS into 2 ohms and 1000 watts RMS into 4 ohms with an input power of 120 volts (maybe slightly more at 240 volts). It will also function without going into protect mode down to <105 volts.

Regarding amps and low voltage protection issues, any (quality) amp should protect itself against extreme low voltage conditions. Less than 105 volts (excluding Japan) is the commonly accepted low line condition threshold, and what most manufacturers are doin gis improving their protection schemes to improve product reliability which allows (many of) them to increase the duration of their warranty. Look back 10 years and you will see generally higher industry failure rates and shorter warranty periods. With the industry trying to improve reliability, the newer amps will generally do a better job of protecting themselves from things like low line conditions, resulting in the amp shutting down and protecting itself rather than failing. Which would you, as an owner, prefer? Especially ifthe warranty was shorter and you were responsible for the repair.

If you encounter a line voltage falling below 105 volts, you really should be cautious about plugging anything of value into it. Don't forget that line voltage must be measured under load, and excessive foltage drop is not uncommon with sub-standard wiring and extremely long or undersized extension cords.

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Let me put an end to this rumor right now.

OK...how about putting an end to this rumor. I heard that Jeff Genzler has hairy knuckles and that he has overdosed on Italian food before.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Let me put an end to this rumor right now.

There is absolutely nothing true or accurate about this comment. I believe it was due to something he or a friend read in a review in BGM magazine where they tried to measure the power on a 1200 with a poor (unregulated) AC power source, and were not able to do so accurately. The larger the amp, the greater the deviation from rated power due to the Vsquared factor in the power equation. Unfortunately we were the first large amp tested with the improper procedure and their tech didn't recognize the importance of input power voltage in the measurement of power and it's (squared) effect on the results

When I analyzed the test set-up, they did not follow the industry standard practice of using a regulated or fixed input voltage and for large power amps of all brands and models, this MUST be done because the output power on all conventional amps falls with a dropping power source voltage. Other major issues were also uncovered when analyzing the test procedure, Tom and his crew have been revising and revisiting their approach to testing and we hope to discuss this more at NAMM to try to come up with some tests that relate better between lab and real world performance conditions across all brands and especially with the advent of the newer class D products, amp types.

The 1200 delivers at least 1200 watts RMS into 2 ohms and 1000 watts RMS into 4 ohms with an input power of 120 volts (maybe slightly more at 240 volts). It will also function without going into protect mode down to <105 volts.

Regarding amps and low voltage protection issues, any (quality) amp should protect itself against extreme low voltage conditions. Less than 105 volts (excluding Japan) is the commonly accepted low line condition threshold, and what most manufacturers are doin gis improving their protection schemes to improve product reliability which allows (many of) them to increase the duration of their warranty. Look back 10 years and you will see generally higher industry failure rates and shorter warranty periods. With the industry trying to improve reliability, the newer amps will generally do a better job of protecting themselves from things like low line conditions, resulting in the amp shutting down and protecting itself rather than failing. Which would you, as an owner, prefer? Especially ifthe warranty was shorter and you were responsible for the repair.

If you encounter a line voltage falling below 105 volts, you really should be cautious about plugging anything of value into it. Don't forget that line voltage must be measured under load, and excessive foltage drop is not uncommon with sub-standard wiring and extremely long or undersized extension cords.

So basically the amp is fine since all grids and outlets have to meet industry standards and the test in which this power issue was tested was faulty to do even that, right? I hope you didn't think I was bringing ignorance to the forum for the sake of doing so. I really just didn't know and I didn't want to trade my amp if such rumors were even remotely true.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

OK...how about putting an end to this rumor. I heard that Jeff Genzler has hairy knuckles and that he has overdosed on Italian food before.

That was so easy even a caveman can do it

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

So basically the amp is fine since all grids and outlets have to meet industry standards and the test in which this power issue was tested was faulty to do even that, right? I hope you didn't think I was bringing ignorance to the forum for the sake of doing so. I really just didn't know and I didn't want to trade my amp if such rumors were even remotely true.

The test conditions did not meet the industry standards for the power test. The rumors are untrue.

Just like if your fretless was designed for flats (or ground or such variation), but then tested with round-wounds and fretboard damage was noted as unacceptable, would the fault be with the bass or the testing procedure?

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

The test conditions did not meet the industry standards for the power test. The rumors are untrue.

Just like if your fretless was designed for flats (or ground or such variation), but then tested with round-wounds and fretboard damage was noted as unacceptable, would the fault be with the bass or the testing procedure?

Thanks man. You definitely put my nerves to rest

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Thanks man. You definitely put my nerves to rest

You also have a 3 year warranty. It's a touring product with a good touring track record.

[groov'ster]

Never any issues with mine

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

You also have a 3 year warranty. It's a touring product with a good touring track record.

I wouldn`t actually. I`d be getting it used through a trade and that`s why I was asking.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I wouldn`t actually. I`d be getting it used through a trade and that`s why I was asking.

Be sure to get the original sales receipt. The 3 year warranty is transferrable to the new owner.

[svtb15]

I have run my GBE1200 in extreme condistions.. Hot outdoor stages . air being 104 and amp at 2 ohms. never a glitch at all. sounded great..
The amp has been on a few hundred gigs perhaps and perfect... ive been gigging my MAX12 and 9.0 these days.
The GBE1200 is tried and proven technology and it is built like a tank.. If i cant make it shut down i dont think anyone can...
its just keeps going and sounding great.. Man I love the EQ section on it too..
The EQ points are real friendly and smooth..

I would love to see a MAX series Class D from GB with the GBE series dual channel EQs.. Future wish list item

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by svtb15

The GBE1200 is tried and proven technology and it is built like a tank.. If i cant make it shut down i dont think anyone can...
its just keeps going and sounding great.. Man I love the EQ section on it too..
The EQ points are real friendly and smooth..

Bingo. I'm a perpetual gear swapper and my 1200 has been with me for 4 years now - I've owned it longer than anything else that I have (and it's not going anywhere). I've brought a lot of other amps home during that 4 years, but the 1200 contiunes to rule them all. Killer piece.

[svtb15]

yeah.. i love the EQ points and the way the Global section interacts with the EQ.. the overall package is just a sweet sounding amp. you can do clean jazz stuff to driving rock all with the same amp.. great and maybe a classic. time will tell