genz benz shuttle 6.0 issues

BradLark · #1 07-09-2011, 09:12 PM

I want to preface my comments, I am really impressed the the GB Shuttle. I love it, I love the portablilty. It has great tone and great volume. I play it through two ampeg 210 8ohm cabs. I stack them verticle and create a 410 "mini stack" rig.. It's pretty cool. Always gets kudos from other players.

But since day one, it's been giving me fits. It has rocked the house on many occasions, but there have been several times when the unit would cut out intermittantly during a gig. First time was at my sons lockout, I was subbing and the thing totally spoiled the rehearsal. I felt so bad. I immediately boxed it up and sent it back the GB for inspection. Spoke with JEff Genzler on the phone, what a nice guy, he said there was nothing wrong with it, maybe a problem with the house power, and sent it back free of charge. That was great, except I was still worried. I have played that lockout with my trusty old 1978 Sunn Concert many nights with no issues.

After many nights of trouble free Shuttle service, the unit had the same problem at a backyard party gig. The entire band was on the end of an extension chord, but there was no problems with the PA or the Guitar, or the keys.. only my bassrig was cutting out.. again really embarrassed. I brought the unit home and decided that maybe it was just the tube. so I changed in a premium GT tube, and it sounded great in my place. I've pushed that little amp hard at my home studio, through two 410 cabs. It rivals the volume of my SVT. Then yesterday I went out for an audition at a rehearsal studio. As soon as I started to play, the unit started to cut out.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHGGGGGGGGG. Man I was pissed. I turned the volume way down and was able to finish the audition alright, but I couldnt turn up and demonstrate very well.. At this point I have lost all confidence in this terrific amp. I just can't trust it. If it is sensitive to the house power, well, I can't know what the house power will be.. I need an amp that works well in less than ideal conditions. I'm writing this to see if anyone else has had issues like this with the GB or any other brand Dclass amps.. I have never had this issue with my SVT 2 and 4 pros, with lots of tubes, and my Sunn and Hartke Solid Staters.. Never cut out like the GB.. Any thoughts. I hate to write a negative post., but at this point, the unit is going to be a dust collector in my studio from now on. I don't even feel good about selling it. I can't sell gear that has a problem, I won't do it. It works at my house, but unsure about taking it on the road.. any thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks

Bradillac on Bass

bal704 · #2 07-09-2011, 09:28 PM

That's what been keeping me from diving head first into these style of amp. Too many reports saying exactly what you're saying. I guess you could get a cheap backup, like a GK MB200 (or the tiny Carvin amp).

Medford Bassman · #3 07-09-2011, 09:37 PM

I own a Shuttle 6.0 and I have experienced this every so often.

bad/low power. For example, played an outdoor wedding as we're setting up I noticed our Furman for our PA is only registering about 90-95 volts. Didn't think much about it until I couldn't get the Shuttle to work. Ran another line to another circuit. Got 110v and never had a problem.

Not the first time I've seen this. I can only assume the Shuttle needs 110v not less. IMO

bal704 · #4 07-09-2011, 09:40 PM

I was going to suggest a power strip with a voltage reading on it. I've got a couple, and they are handy at times. Might not make your amp work, but at least you'll know where to start looking for solutions.

agedhorse · #5 07-09-2011, 10:25 PM

This topic comes up every so often, and what users don't seem to understand is that rather than an amp getting damaged when the power is bad, designers are protecting their amps better. The Shuttle (as well as some other SMPS/class D amps) are typically designed to operate down to about 95-100V, and much below this there are some mechanisms that present potential damage to the amp. This is also true of many of the new SMPS/class D PA amp products, so it's not exclusive to the bass amp industry.

The result is very occassional inconvenient "protect" moments under serious low voltage conditions, but this is in place of "blown amp" moments. The actual amp failure rates of these new amps is actually about 1/2 that of coventional amps because of the better protection.

Also, even many conventional amps have low voltage shut-down but it's nowhere near as easy nor accurate to impliment compared with the newer technology which is why U.V. failures can happen more often. Anybody who is in the pro audio business is very aware of the need for power stability and adequate power.

Really guys, the U.S. power standard is 120 volts (either 120/240V, 1 ph or 120/208V, 3 ph) so if you are encountering 90-95 volts that's not a safe or practical situation. 90 volts is low even for Japan's 100V grid. Also note that the output power of almost all of these amps (conventional and class D) decreases quickly as line voltage goes down, so there are the performance issues as well.

bal704 · #6 07-09-2011, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the info!

wmheilma · #7 07-09-2011, 10:41 PM

Thanks AgedHorse for the info. I really like the 6.0 a lot, but make sure it is plugged into decent power. I played one gig with it on a generator where the voltage was low enough to make the keyboards change patches. The GB faded in and out which was frustrating, but no amp would sound good with power that bad.

BradLark · #8 07-09-2011, 11:35 PM

Yes, I was leaning that direction, and Jeff G. had commented that he thought that was the issue too.. What can I do about the power at a gig? Carry a 100' extension so I can plug in to a different source than the rest of the band? Maybe!

My comment is out of sheer frustration because I love that amp. I really do, and I have played through them all. Say what you want to about low voltage being bad, when thats all you have to work with, what is a guy supposed to do?? Like I said, my 30 year old, (and not all that heavy) Sunn Concert plays all night in the same venue where the Shuttle was going into protection mode. That's the frustrating part.

I apologize for 'bad mouthing' the Shuttle, it really is phenominal. Hands down the best of class. I guess I am looking for a sure fire solution to the power issues, maybe one does not exist, I had THREE failures in the last 12 months.. That's too many. Carrying an emergency generator around with me is not an option.

I will not give up my Shuttle, just looking for solutions to a problem,, BTW, I searched Google for Shuttle Problems and could not easily find links about that. So I thought that my issue was isolated.

**B-string** · #9 07-09-2011, 11:46 PM

Its not a cheap option but a power regulator might end the troubles. NOT a "power conditioner" but a real power regulator.

BradLark · #10 07-09-2011, 11:46 PM

Thanks everyone for your comments. I do appreciate all the sage advise. Again I apologize for any negative vibe, I do love my Genz Benz Shuttle, I would buy it again! I play it everyday. Just frustrated.

Bradillac on Bass

Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 on tour

SVT2 Pro
SVT4 Pro
Sunn Concert
Hartke 200

210
410
810
115
118

Fender AMD Precission 5
MM Stingray 5
MM Stingray Fretless 5
Dean Pace Bass 5
Scott Clement Fretless 4 P&J

**B-string** · #11 07-09-2011, 11:54 PM

Something along this line: Furman F1000-UPS Uninterruptible Power Supply Voltage Regulator/Power Conditioner and more Power Conditioners at GuitarCenter.com.

Stingray5 · #12 07-10-2011, 12:04 AM

happened to me once with my Shuttle 9 at a wedding gig. Outdoors, the whole band plus a lot of lights going into a single outlet. It's a power problem, as has been mentioned. I'd much rather the amp protect itself than to have to buy a new one..

rodl2005 · #13 07-10-2011, 12:09 AM

+1 power condition-er(??) seems the go here. I've not used my class D amps in bad power situations & thus have had no issues whatsoever with my Shuttle or STL.
BUT I agree with 'aged horse',.I'd much rather have my amp shut down than blow up!
Have done gigs in the past that were generator powered & they did cause us some issues then. This was in the days pre D class- sheesh- 20 yrs ago 8-() Made our drum machine go funny & made a real fun gig. Seriously!

Bting · #14 07-10-2011, 12:30 AM

2nd the thought of getting a UPS.
Something similar to what you get for your home pc.

Likely find a decent 350kV for $50-ish.

You'd be running the Amp off the known-good output of the UPS and let the UPS take the brown power to keep charging the battery.

rodl2005 · #15 07-10-2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bting

2nd the thought of getting a UPS.
Something similar to what you get for your home pc.

Likely find a decent 350kV for $50-ish.

You'd be running the Amp off the known-good output of the UPS and let the UPS take the brown power to keep charging the battery.

Sorry to be a pain here, but by UPS, you mean??? I sort of know what you mean, but would love it if you'd clarify it definitively for me.
Links would also be great for me, as I'm in Aus, so these may be called a slightly different name here,& also I may be silly enough to get it completely wrong if trying to buy one.
Would appreciate it. :-)

alexofc69 · #16 07-10-2011, 01:04 AM

my shuttle did the same on several occasions plus some other weird stuff. Sent it back to GB. They replaced tube, pots and other service. It was golden after. But since have sold and got Streamliner.

RedLeg · #17 07-10-2011, 01:18 AM

i have never had this happen with the army's shuttle 6's. We took 2 shuttles all over iraq with who knows what kind of power; anywhere from 100-220v depending on the FOB. we had them in the rain, duststorms, and 120 degree heat. the only thing to destroy one of these was user error (set to 110 when he plugged into 220). and GB repaired the broken one for free even when we told them the truth and it was user error.

mongo2 · #18 07-10-2011, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

Something along this line: Furman F1000-UPS Uninterruptible Power Supply Voltage Regulator/Power Conditioner and more Power Conditioners at GuitarCenter.com.

It weighs 36lbs...kind of defeats the purpose of having an lightweight head.

I also had this issue at an outdoor party and one venue on our "tour circuit" so I just use my backup for that venue.

Medford Bassman · #19 07-10-2011, 07:42 AM

The Shuttle 6.0 is awesome. I try to negotiate the power situation as well as our pay.

We simply don't do gigs run on generator power because most people just want to rent a 5000 watt Honda. Our gear is too expensive to risk it for that.

fishtx · #20 07-10-2011, 09:38 AM

I have a Furman AR-15 voltage regulator I carry for use at "suspect" gigs (like where we've had power issues before etc...It can make a noticable difference...but they are heavy and not cheap...