Genz Benz Shuttle 6 issue?

[fettbass]

I recently acquired a Genz Benz shuttle 6, and I am quite impressed by it thus far, loud, light, portable, all good things. However, I have one question/issue. I seem to be having trouble getting any sort of tube drive from the unit. I'll have the tube gain entirely up, yet the input overload light will barely light up, and the tone still sounds pretty clean. It will light up a little bit if I really dig in, and I'll get a little distortion, but that might even be coming from the speakers farting out. I'm using an SWR golight 4 ohm 4x10 cab, so i should be pushing the 600 watts out of the head.

[MIJ-VI]

Input pad?

Passive bass? Active?

[fettbass]

As far as I know there's no input pad on the amp. It's a passive fender jazz bass.

[MIJ-VI]

Have you tried a different guitar cable?

From the Shuttle 6 manual:

SETTING YOUR INPUT SIGNAL – Use the following guidelines to set your amplifier input stage for the type of bass used and your personal playing style. These guidelines are just a suggested starting point.

1) Set your instruments controls (volume and tone) where you normally prefer to run them.

2) Now set all controls on the SHUTTLE to 12 o’clock. It may be best to start with the Master Volume at 9 o’clock.

3) For a clean tone and using a Passive bass your Tube Gain and Preamp Volume settings may be set to similar positions. For a clean tone using an Active bass your Tube Gain setting should be set more towards the 9 o’clock position and the Preamp Volume at noon to 2 o’clock positions.

4) For overdriven tube tones with Active or Passive basses your Tube Gain setting will be set higher and the Preamp Volume set lower. If driving the Gain Control towards maximum then the Preamp Volume should be set below the 12 o’clock position. Set your Master Volume for your desired overall volume. We suggest experimenting with different settings for
best results.

5) Now, turn your attention to the EQ section and make the adjustments for your desired tone. Because this is an active EQ network, any larger settings of cut or boost will affect the gain level of the preamp and the O/L lights at the input stage.

6) After setting your EQ it may be necessary to go back and adjust your input gain level down accordingly. It should
be noted that the Global Signal Shape circuits will not affect the input gain BUT will affect the Master output level and LIMIT indicator if used with extreme settings.

[klokker]

I'm 95% sure that the input from your bass isn't strong enough, even with the gain all the way up. I have a shuttle 6.0 and had the same issue. My passive bass just doesn't have a strong enough signal to inspire tube breakup , my active basses are more than enough.

There is nothing wrong with your amp. You'll have to boost the signal from your bass if you want more distortion.

[Red Planet]

PLug and OCD V3 in and enjoy the overdrive.

[f.clef]

Originally Posted by klokker

I'm 95% sure that the input from your bass isn't strong enough, even with the gain all the way up. I have a shuttle 6.0 and had the same issue. My passive bass just doesn't have a strong enough signal to inspire tube breakup , my active basses are more than enough.

There is nothing wrong with your amp. You'll have to boost the signal from your bass if you want more distortion.

Yes. It takes a lot to push that tube in the 6.0 (and in the 9.0 as well). I understand that that's by design, given the distribution of active vs. passive basses in the market.

My solution, for pushing the tube when playing my passive Jazz with SCN's through the Shuttle: Creation Audio Labs MK.4.23 Boost.

[fettbass]

Excellent. It's good to know that there's nothing wrong with the amp. A booster pedal of some sort is in order!

[biobass]

You might also try raising the pickups a tad, which can make a tremendous difference in their output. I have no trouble whatsoever pushing the gain on my Shuttle 6.0 with my passive '65 jazzz and my roscoe Beck V.

Cheers,
Dennis

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by fettbass

Excellent. It's good to know that there's nothing wrong with the amp. A booster pedal of some sort is in order!

honestly, i'd rather have an od pedal than a booster for distortion on a gig. the reason is because the volume levels between clean and dirty may end up being pretty big since you have to overload the preamp. so you get a good clean sound you like then boost it, your level could go through the roof. whereas with a pedal you can match levels much easier. and nowadays, the pedals they have for bass od often sound as good or better than preamp od, which i've always thought was a little too buzzy for my tastes.

now if you use od as an always-on thing and you like preamp tube overdrive (a lot of folks do, no doubt), maybe a booster would be the thing.

[agedhorse]

With a passive Jazz, the output is pretty low by comparison to other basses out there and if you want to be able to drive the preamp tube hard, it's a good idea to check the pickup height and alignment. You can gain 9dB when well aligned over not so well aligned. You migh also like the overall feel and playability better.

If this doesn't get you enough drive, and you play pretty laid back, you might indeed want to look into a boost pedal or box that has a minimum of 6-9dB of boost. You might also look into fdeck's preamp.

The Shuttle was designed for mild tubey overdrive with an average bass. If you have a low output bass, you might not be able to overdrive the tube enough for your tastes though I have heard some amazing overdrive from the Shuttles with some ofthe hotter basses on the market. The ShuttleMax has the boost circuit built in, geared more for those looking for a more heavily overdriven tone.

Hope this helps.

[FarkusSWR]

This is interesting because I just bought a 9.0 yesterday. Just out of curiosity I put them side-by-side and A/B'd them. The indicator light would come on on the 6.0 but not on the 9.0 with a Corvette Standard active. A StingRay 4 would not cause the light to come on with either head. Maybe I should try another cable?

[f.clef]

Originally Posted by FarkusSWR

This is interesting because I just bought a 9.0 yesterday. Just out of curiosity I put them side-by-side and A/B'd them. The indicator light would come on on the 6.0 but not on the 9.0 with a Corvette Standard active. A StingRay 4 would not cause the light to come on with either head. Maybe I should try another cable?

I experienced a similar "problem," which I no longer see as a problem, even a little bit: A little more experience has shown that there _is_ a difference in the gain setup on the 9.0 vs. the 6.0. On the 6.0, I could keep the preamp volume down all the way, and, with the gain at, say 12:00, get that that O\L LED blazing with my MB2-5. Not so with the 9.0 (although the tube is definitely pushed at that point) -- the 9.0 O\L light seems to pay some attention to the preamp volume setting as well. Turn that up a bit, and then crank the gain; you should see the light come on.

[f.clef]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

honestly, i'd rather have an od pedal than a booster for distortion on a gig. the reason is because the volume levels between clean and dirty may end up being pretty big since you have to overload the preamp. so you get a good clean sound you like then boost it, your level could go through the roof. whereas with a pedal you can match levels much easier. and nowadays, the pedals they have for bass od often sound as good or better than preamp od, which i've always thought was a little too buzzy for my tastes.

now if you use od as an always-on thing and you like preamp tube overdrive (a lot of folks do, no doubt), maybe a booster would be the thing.

Agreed. Not much of an OD fan myself, though. Just looking for a little taste sometimes on my fretless Jazz, which the Shuttle preamp (+ boost) most serviceably delivers!

[FarkusSWR]

Originally Posted by f.clef

I experienced a similar "problem," which I no longer see as a problem, even a little bit: A little more experience has shown that there _is_ a difference in the gain setup on the 9.0 vs. the 6.0. On the 6.0, I could keep the preamp volume down all the way, and, with the gain at, say 12:00, get that that O\L LED blazing with my MB2-5. Not so with the 9.0 (although the tube is definitely pushed at that point) -- the 9.0 O\L light seems to pay some attention to the preamp volume setting as well. Turn that up a bit, and then crank the gain; you should see the light come on.

Thanks, clef. I did not try turning up the pre volume, just the gain. Never even thought about it. I will try that out later.
I thought my brand-new toy had issues
Glad I was wrong lol.

[Red Planet]

No issues crank them both and grind.


I love my Shuttle 9.0.

[agedhorse]

There is a difference in gain structure between the 6 and the 9 due to the drive level differences between the different power amps and limiter stages. This may be what you are seeing, the difference does scale somewhat into the front end. A little more headroom on the 9.0 input stage allows the remaining stages to operate at the slightly higher drive levels.

[FarkusSWR]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

There is a difference in gain structure between the 6 and the 9 due to the drive level differences between the different power amps and limiter stages. This may be what you are seeing, the difference does scale somewhat into the front end. A little more headroom on the 9.0 input stage allows the remaining stages to operate at the slightly higher drive levels.

What does that mean, exactly?
I went to public school.

[fettbass]

Yes, I'd be curious to know that too. As an aside, the shuttle 6 is hands down my favourite bass amp, and I've played more than a few. Some quite a bit more costly!

[agedhorse]

It means that it takes a little bit more preamp level to drive the larger power amp to full power. This leads to slightly different gain structure by design.