Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 running out of headroom?

[cricketfever32]

Hey guys, I have a shuttle 9.0 and 2 epifani t-112 NYC's and I took it out for a gig yesterday and somehow found myself pretty much maxing out the head while keeping up with 2 solid state half stacks. Can anyone point out what I could possibly be doing wrong? Both Gain and output knobs were at 1 o'clock, no eq except a small dip in the 700hz to equalize the rig to the room. Or do I just need a more powerful head? Or cabs?

[CL400Peavey]

That head has "Gain", "Input Volume", and "Master Volume" knobs. You had them all at 1 oclock and your 112 cabs weren't blown?

[KJung]

First, don't listen with your eyes. That amp uses audiotaper pots, and doesn't even start to crank at those knob settings (assuming you don't have the hottest output bass in history).

The beautiful thing about the audiotaper design is that you have very nice control of volume increases, since the increase in volume is very steady through most of the knob taper.

For most input settings, that amp continues to increase in volume through 3 o'clock on the master volume knob, and won't really start to crank until you get it past noon.

Also, remember that the volume and gain controls at the front end of the signal interact. At reasonable low gain settings, you might need to crank that volume control to 3 o'clock (for example) to get an optimal signal into the power amp.

Finally, the 'boost' button (or whatever it is called) is kind of a 'reverse pad' button, designed to allow low output basses to push the input stage a bit. Don't be afraid to engage that. The Streamliner, IMO, sounds best with the input gain pushed a bit.

And... well, finally finally, the output clip light is not really a clip indicator, but rather an indication that you are hitting the very nice Genz power management system, which gives you a bit of the feel of a tube power section compressing a bit when pushed. While I wouldn't run the amp with the light on all the time, having that indicator blink on your hardest, lowest hits is actually a good thing.

[cricketfever32]

nope. They were fine. I had the master volume at 12 o'clock, and the gain and input volume at 1 o'clock. I have a very quiet bass, passive 5 string jazz with lane poor humbuckers.

[cricketfever32]

Huh. I figured I wasn't suppost to hit that output compressor since it's a big yellow light saying "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M ON ALL THE TIME" And that's what I was trying to avoid, but if that's the case then I'll give the rig another run at stage volumes today and see what happens. Best part about the Epifani's, and the main reason I got them besides being Epifani, was the insane power handling for peaks transients.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by cricketfever32

nope. They were fine. I had the master volume at 12 o'clock, and the gain and input volume at 1 o'clock. I have a very quiet bass, passive 5 string jazz with lane poor humbuckers.

There you go. With a low output bass, you can easily put the input gain to 3 o'clock and the volume close to that, or engage the 'boost' switch and use your current settings.

[cricketfever32]

Thank you! I will definitely keep that in tone setting in mind. Definitely doesn't behave like my old Ampeg SVT-3 PRO.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by cricketfever32

Huh. I figured I wasn't suppost to hit that output compressor since it's a big yellow light saying "HEY LOOK AT ME I'M ON ALL THE TIME" And that's what I was trying to avoid, but if that's the case then I'll give the rig another run at stage volumes today and see what happens. Best part about the Epifani's, and the main reason I got them besides being Epifani, was the insane power handling for peaks transients.

Yeah, it is a bit of a different design. If that indicator is coming on only occasionally at your hardest, lowest hits, you are in good shape.

That all being said, the 900 watts of the (edit) Shuttle is, well, in my experience, a bit 'hopeful' (they use some clever power management and heat reduction circuitry to squeeze every bit of juice out of that particular ICE power module... very nice design and 'tweak'). Again, the head cranks, and will outperform most of the 500-600 watt micro's. Will it wump like the DB750 or the Mesa M9, IME, no. It should be able to drive those Epi's to full performance though.

[cricketfever32]

I've been considering the DB 750 for a giant non-switching power supply amp and see how that fares with the 2 1x12 rig. any opinions/predispositions as to how that'll work in comparison to the shuttle 9? and yea the 900 watts is definitely quite hopeful but I figured I was doing something wrong in there, womp.

[DWBass]

I think you need more speakers (push more air). The 2x12's wil only give you so much. With that amp and you fighting 2 big guitar rigs, I'd be rocking 2 4x10's.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I think you need more speakers (push more air). The 2x12's wil only give you so much. With that amp and you fighting 2 big guitar rigs, I'd be rocking 2 4x10's.

+1 in that no matter how you EQ, and want the quality of the components are, 2 x 112 is only going to push so much air if you are in a situation that is stupid loud.

[cricketfever32]

Actually KJung, I don't own the streamliner, I have the Shuttle 9.0.

+1 to the shuttle's articulation. it's definitely helped my playing just by reproducing all of the little nuances in my playing.

[shoot-r]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I think you need more speakers (push more air). The 2x12's wil only give you so much. With that amp and you fighting 2 big guitar rigs, I'd be rocking 2 4x10's.

BIG +1!!!

I ran a G.K.800 (only 300 watts at 4 ohms) into a 4 ohm SVT 810 cabinet for years in some unbelievably loud groups (full stack Marshall's) on some very large stages...
They were usually yelling for me to bring my level down.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by cricketfever32

Actually KJung, I don't own the streamliner, I have the Shuttle 9.0.

+1 to the shuttle's articulation. it's definitely helped my playing just by reproducing all of the little nuances in my playing.

aaaargh..... I'm a dope then. While the 'clip light' info I provided, and also the 'audiotaper pot' sort of thing is still accurate, all my blah blah about the tone settings and 'interactivity' can be ignored. Sorry about that. I'm so used to guys having issues with the Streamliner 'out of the box', that I was in 'Streamliner learning curve' mode. I'll edit my posts to get rid of all of that!

Sorry about that. I'm not a bit fan of the Shuttle 9 myself. Doesn't have quite as much ooomph as the Streamliner or Max 9.2 to my ear, and it 'needs' a boost in the low end and the lower mids (IMO) to fatten up, which leaves nothing left to control the bright top end (for my tone goals). I also find the 'all or nothing' voicing buttons to extreme to be particularly useful. Still a nice head though, and should actually match up nicely with your cabs.

Edit: OK, I think I fixed my mess on all the Streamliner EQ talk about.

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by DWBass

I think you need more speakers (push more air). The 2x12's wil only give you so much. With that amp and you fighting 2 big guitar rigs, I'd be rocking 2 4x10's.

I agree fully. You are trying to get by with half the cone area your guitar players are using. That's a no win situation. If they will not turn down and you want to keep up, double your speaker count.

[cricketfever32]

Luckily last nights gig was a one off with a pop-punk band. My real band's a 3 piece and this rig is so perfect for it. BUT now with KJung's revised inputs on the set up, I think it's time for a DB 750. Extra weight but gobs more power.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by cricketfever32

Luckily last nights gig was a one off with a pop-punk band. My real band's a 3 piece and this rig is so perfect for it. BUT now with KJung's revised inputs on the set up, I think it's time for a DB 750. Extra weight but gobs more power.

Still going to run into volume limitations with your cabs, Seeing as the Agi is 2 Ohm stable, I would find a third (or 4th) matching 112.

[thudfromafar]

More power won't help. The shuttle 9 can definitely max out your cabs.

[rodl2005]

Wow! I can quite easily max out 2 112"cabs with a 500w micro amp. I've 2 Berg AE112's
Ya NEED more speaker area!
Or you'll kill ur speakers.

[Hapa]

Bass is two 1x12 cabs vs two 4x12 guitar cabs. You need cones ;P tasty cones I would be rocking two 4x10's or more. That is a lot of guitar to keep up with assuming the guitarists don't comprehend turning down and the drummer isn't Mr. Hammerfists.