Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 vs MB LM II MARCO Ltd. Edition 08

[bassarch]

Hi guys
I am about to make a decision between two heads ; GB shuttle 9.0 vs Mark Bass Little Mark II Marco Limited edition 08 ....
I play in an alternative rock band with a loud drummer and a loud guitarist . The sound I am after is a mixture of vintage and hi fi modern sounds I can say ; having the fundamental lows but at the same bringing out the 'in your face' tone with the mids and highs when I dig in ( Skunk Anansie -Twisted bass tone is actually what I have in mind if that helps )
My basses are Warwick Corvette standard bubinga body wenge neck and Fender jazz bass .
I tried those 2 heads by the way in a very short time with another bass .I will do a long time test later again . When I tested them the first quick impressions ;
Markbass ; lots of lows ,really lot .. way more smooth than GB ..tried to get a sharp grind attack by cutting the lows but the lows were always there getting in your way ..more output
Genz Benz ; more modern ,bright, hi fi sound , less lows than Mark Bass ..less output

So these are the impressions of a quick test done in 5 minutes by a Tobias Bass through a 8x10 Marshall ( so my results may not be accurate )

Anyways I liked the big lows and the tubey warmness of Mark Bass but couldnt manage to tame it to get to a more modern sound....and I liked the modern hi fi sound of Genz Benz but I felt it missed smt in the lows ,
So my question; is it possible to make GB powerfull in the lows as the MB _? and which of the 2 you guys suggest to me for the sound I am after ._? and if either one of them is better for recording or live performances ..?

All opinions appreciated
Thanks

[agedhorse]

Did you engage the low frequency extend switch on the Shuttle. With a larger cabinet, this will give you better and deeper low frequency extension.

[KJung]

I'm pretty familiar with both of those heads, and gigged an LMII for a couple of years as my primary amp.

I think what you are hearing is a function of a couple of things.

1) The beauty of the LMII is that, for many of us, it is voiced beautifully right out of the box. Very even, nice and warm, nice low end, smooth mids, nice treble extension that is not harsh. The Shuttle 9 (IMO and IME) needs a bit of goosing to sound 'good' to me.... primarily a bit of boost in the low mids with the semi-parametric EQ, and with some cabs, a smidge of bass boost. I find the 'bass boost' button 'too much of a good thing' myself.

2) The gain structure of the Shuttle 9 is very different than the LMII. You have to crank both the input gain and master more to get full performance. Also, the gain/secondary volume thing can be a bit confusing, and you have to mess with it a bit to optimize the input signal and tone you want (i.e., the amount of tubiness).

The Shuttle 9 will outperform the LMII in absolute volume. I prefer the even, warm, voicing of the LMII myself, and the wonderful plug and play nature of that head, but if I really had to crank, I'd choose the Shuttle 9.

If you don't mind a bit larger size, the Shuttle Max 9.2 is simply magnificent. Amazing EQ, and lots of oomph and punch.

IMO!

[Danielrocks2]

I have actually owned both and imho I would go with the Markbass little mark ii. You can get so many good tones by just knowing how to dial it in. The low frequency can be a bit powerful but if you want a more bright tone all you have to do is turn down the low and mid low to about 4 and the mid high and high to 6 or 7 and you will get the tone you are looking for. I just tested it out with my warwick fna Jazzman on that setting and it was plenty bright.

[JxBass]

Originally Posted by bassarch

Markbass ; lots of lows ,really lot .. way more smooth than GB ..tried to get a sharp grind attack by cutting the lows but the lows were always there getting in your way ..more output
Genz Benz ; more modern ,bright, hi fi sound , less lows than Mark Bass ..less output

Anyways I liked the big lows and the tubey warmness of Mark Bass but couldnt manage to tame it to get to a more modern sound....and I liked the modern hi fi sound of Genz Benz but I felt it missed smt in the lows ,
So my question; is it possible to make GB powerfull in the lows as the MB _? and which of the 2 you guys suggest to me for the sound I am after ._? and if either one of them is better for recording or live performances ..?

All opinions appreciated
Thanks

The LMII was my primary amp for a long time - a great one. I eventually let it go after getting my Shuttle 9.0. As stated, more power in the STL-9.0 and I had no problem with low or high end out of it. I found that a little EQ with the STL-9.0 goes a long way. Yes, a bit more hi-fi, but that translated to clarity for me, which is what I eventually preferred.

Both great heads and a matter of style and preference.

[bassarch]

Thanks guys

Agedhorse - I didnt engage that button , it was a real quick 5 minutes test,next time I will keep that in mind.Do you mean that it will make a major change in the lows ?

So 2 for Markbass and 1 vote for Shuttle .For this thread it looks like MB is a winner ..
Any other opinions from users who A/B'ed them ?

By the way I tried many times to search the forums but there is not a single thread about a shuttle 9.0 review .Tons of reviews and pages for shuttle 6.0 and MB LM II but not one even single shuttle 9.0 review..... how come ?

[Aaron_D]

The low extension button on the shuttle series is very effective in adding lows if that is what youre after.

The shuttle's voicing really shines on stage at show volumes. No muddyness at all. It may not flap your pants like an SVT when set flat, but it can with some EQing (and the right cab) and flat it is almost perfect imo as a stage monitor (especially with the uber cabs).

Imo the 12.0 is voiced perfectly flat with an uber 212 cab and a 5 string sadowsky. Dont discount the 12.0.

[rodl2005]

I'll vote for the Shuttle,

having owned both, the tube growl available on the GB & it's great mid EQ = a win for me.
& btw, I love the LMII also.

[bassarch]

By the way , while I appreciate all the other model advices , in the area where I live my choices are limited .only the 2 mentioned heads ,I have to choose between these 2..

[nemo]

I tried many times to search the forums but there is not a single thread about a shuttle 9.0 review

Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 Appreciation Thread lot of info here

[bassarch]

Thanks nemo

[bassarch]

So , after making a thorough test of 1 hour with 2 heads with my own bass ( Warwick Corvette Std bubinga )on saturday I left the shop with the Genz Benz shuttle 9.0 .. definitely a winner !..Also I see now the first impressions in my first quick test werent accurate and some are wrong ..) : I am not a very technical guy , so excuse me for any wrong technical expressions here it goes :

First of all during my first quick test I thought Markbass was warmer , well wrong! IMO GB has that tubey warmness definetely , MB is just more nuanced in the low register ,( which at first also gives you the impression that it is louder ) GB can definetely get very very loud , you feel the power if you push the amp..

Secondly ,contrary to the general idea that MB has that! tone with everything flat , that wasnt like that for me .When everything at 12 clock the sound coming from the cabinet was very muddy and irritatingly boomy for me ..I had to tweak quite a lot to find my tone ...yes u can dial in good tones in MB for sure but the boomy thing is most of the time there ,hard to get beyond that..whereas with the GB I plugged in , and wallaa..) there it was , maybe just a few tiny adding and cutting some frequancies , the ideal tone is there ..if I want to be boomy as MB , it is also there ,as agedhorse said you can engage the low frequency extend switch and it gets even more boomy if you want....so I found the eq of GB shuttle much more powerfull than MB .I am sure I will find much more usefull tricks as I get used to GB . The eq in MB has also things to offer of course ,but especially in the high and mid register I found GB has more to offer you .Also GB highs are very pleasant to ears ,MB starts to get harsh from one point IMO .

And of course the tube preamp of GB ,now thats is one sweet sounding preamp....When I dig in and push the volume ,there starts the tubey grind , I felt my Warwick growled in a much more pleasant and musical way with GB than it did with MB . And thats why also I found MB much more sterile sounding than GB IMHO . With GB the sound is much more organic and natural , you feel that your bass is much more alive.With MB the sound is more sterile and lacking some life in it....IMO

Well these are all my opinions ,MB fans may not agree with me But I have to add that after I made my decision there was a guitarist guy in the shop listening to my 1 hour test .And he said that ''I didnt want to say anything during your test to influence you,but now that you made up your mind I must say that my choice is also GB ,it definetely sounds much more musical and you also played more beautifull with GB ....'' that was the most important thing I guess ,GB made me want to play in a more inspired way ,but MB couldnt do that .

One last thing ..all that being said , there is no doubt that MB is a fine world class amp , that is for sure , I am not trying to bash MB ,I can see how it may sound good to others as GB did to me , it just didnt speak to me ...If I had more money I would consider of adding it to my gear probably,but as I had to choose between two, Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 was the winner without a question mark ...now I have to record an album with it (- agedhorse I want to ask you a question about that : Can I get a good result if I record directly from GB head to board , do you have any advices for me ? )

Thanks for all the input guys ( and sorry if there are any languauge mistakes , English is not my native language )
and thanks Genz Benz for making such a fine equipment for bass players

[KJung]

Per my earlier post, I think you made a good choice here for your volume and tone goals.

One thing though, the Markbass heads are NOT flat with everything set to noon. The 'neutral' tone of the Markbass heads occurs when the EQ is set to noon and the filters are off. This is a common mistake made by those who try the Markbass heads in stores (even Guitar Center employees unfortunately make this mistake sometimes). With 'everything' at noon, those heads sound boomy and flubby.

No big deal though. I again think you made the right choice and will be very pleased with your purchase.

[Musicman20]

The 9.0 is a good choice, but the Markbass filters on at 12 as well is not a good idea, it isnt the core tone. The filters should both be all the way to the left, and the EQ at noon, and then you have the amps 'flat as the amp will be' response.

With the VLE and VPF at 12, im not surprised it came across like that!

Still, either choice is good

[bassarch]

My bad so thats why it took me quite longer to find my ideal tone with MB .As I said MB is really fine too ,maybe one day I may add one to my gear ... but before that those new Streamliners hmmmmm yummy....

[KJung]

Originally Posted by bassarch

My bad so thats why it took me quite longer to find my ideal tone with MB .As I said MB is really fine too ,maybe one day I may add one to my gear ... but before that those new Streamliners hmmmmm yummy....

That is an unfortunately very common mistake, and really makes those heads sound pretty bad... scooped and muddy.

[bassarch]

Yes exactly it felt like that , but even though I found usefull nice tones after some tweaking with MB they just didnt speak to me

By the way Kjung your youtube videos for Streamliner sound sooo goood ,( the sound from your Alleva Coppolo is almost perfect ) actually I can say its you in the first place who gave me the Streamliner GAS Now having just bought a new piece of gear shall I thank you ? or be mad at you _?
just joking of course your videos really sound so good , if there were those Streamliners in my area I would have bought it in an eye blink , maybe one day

[BurningSkies]

Using the MB LMII with the VLE and VPF at noon isn't representative in the least of the tone of this amp. I agree that a lot of store personnel have no idea and it sinks a lot of potential sales of the head.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by bassarch

Yes exactly it felt like that , but even though I found usefull nice tones after some tweaking with MB they just didnt speak to me

By the way Kjung your youtube videos for Streamliner sound sooo goood ,( the sound from your Alleva Coppolo is almost perfect ) actually I can say its you in the first place who gave me the Streamliner GAS Now having just bought a new piece of gear shall I thank you ? or be mad at you _?
just joking of course your videos really sound so good , if there were those Streamliners in my area I would have bought it in an eye blink , maybe one day

I again think you made a good choice based on your original post. So, I think you are good.

The Streamliner is a bit of a different beast than the Shuttle 9. Both are great. The Shuttle 9 punches harder in the mids, and has a more modern, bright upper mid response, and a much tighter low end. That works very well in many, many contexts. The Streamliner is much more old school/all tube sounding, and the very interactive tone controls bring to mind some older tube amps, and even some of the Mesa stuff. Very cool for what it is.

Thanks for the comments! There is so much cool stuff out there that most are never able to try, that one more data point can't hurt, even though it is always 'my sound' on the clips.

[agedhorse]

Originally Posted by bassarch

But I have to add that after I made my decision there was a guitarist guy in the shop listening to my 1 hour test .And he said that ''I didnt want to say anything during your test to influence you,but now that you made up your mind I must say that my choice is also GB ,it definetely sounds much more musical and you also played more beautifull with GB ....'' that was the most important thing I guess ,GB made me want to play in a more inspired way ,but MB couldnt do that .

Let me add to this, when trying out ANY amp, it's important that it FEELS good to you. You might try playing with your eyes closed and get into the feel and playability to see if it works with your playing style, and touch. It's a subtle thing BUT, when it's right, you will know it. It is a hard thing to define.