Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 vs ShuttleMAX 12.0

carbonfold · #1 07-01-2010, 08:24 AM

Ok ok..... the gears are turning about converting to SS from the power tube world!

Now, I'm thinking about selling or trading in my Peavey VB-2 for a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 or a ShuttleMAX 12.0. I currently have an Ampeg SVT610 cab and wondering what ya'll think. Worth converting to? I'm sure my back would say yes, but with all the new buzz about class D amps flowing into the market, now I'm thinking about it.

I do enjoy the VB-2 but what ya'll think? The Shuttle 9.0 or ShuttleMAX 12.0 for the modern rock/metal that I play? Check out our sound and let me know what ya'll might think that will fit my needs.

www.callingallwar.com

Thanks,

Mill

rok51 · #2 07-01-2010, 05:52 PM

Okay...I am tippy-toeing here...I have never played through the Max 12...although I lusted for one...until the 9.0 arrived. I think that your choice will be determined by the cabs that you use. If you were planning on using four 8 ohm-or two 4 ohm cabs...I'd go with the Max 12. The Max series has an incredible versatility in its preamp section. If your setup involved a high output 4 ohm or two 8 ohm cabs...then I'd go for the 9.0 (which I do have). It's true that you don't have the benefit of the FET front end choice on the Max 12 (I have that setup on my 3.0 and love it!), but the 9.0 has balls far in excess of its size or power rating...It is absolutely sick into a pair of large 8 ohm cabs...into my much smaller GS112s...it rules...

Kim

twinfallsbass · #3 07-01-2010, 06:04 PM

I also have a Shuttle 9.0 and a bunch of tubes heads. As much as I am digging the 9.0, I would have to say stick with the VB-2 for your style of music. Considering how much power the VB-2 puts out, it's not too heavy weight wise. I have played a broad span of music any where from metal to country, and for metal it's all tube baby!!!!

Fretlessboy · #4 07-01-2010, 06:53 PM

if you are running the 610 cab the Max12.0 is a great head but you will get more juice out of the 9.0
I have them both and use the 9.0 more. (mainly for power reasons...tone wise they both kill.)
If you don't need the other 300 watts the 12 is a killer and will do just fine

carbonfold · #5 07-01-2010, 10:38 PM

Ok, I went and bought the 9.0 and I thought the 9.0 sounds a bit darker than the 12.0. It sounded puncher and louder, of course, but I'm wondering if the 12.0 tone control is something that may out weigh the extra 300watts.

I'm just really caught in wondering..... will that 300 watts cost me too much headroom in the 12.0? I'm already having to back the amp down on the 9.0 to keep it from clipping on my lows, so would have to back the 12.0 down even more since less watts? I can take and exchange for the 12.0 but just don't want to take that one home and have to get the 9.0 back haha....

Honestly, if GB just made the 12.0 bridgable, it would be a no brainer. But they didn't lol.

KsPiNeSh · #6 07-02-2010, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonfold

Ok, I went and bought the 9.0 and I thought the 9.0 sounds a bit darker than the 12.0. It sounded puncher and louder, of course, but I'm wondering if the 12.0 tone control is something that may out weigh the extra 300watts.

I'm just really caught in wondering..... will that 300 watts cost me too much headroom in the 12.0? I'm already having to back the amp down on the 9.0 to keep it from clipping on my lows, so would have to back the 12.0 down even more since less watts? I can take and exchange for the 12.0 but just don't want to take that one home and have to get the 9.0 back haha....

Honestly, if GB just made the 12.0 bridgable, it would be a no brainer. But they didn't lol.

What are you calling clipping? Is the tube preamp flashing, or are you seeing the limiter flash? Genz amps are set up a little differently in that the master limiter flashes as you approach clipping, not when you are actually clipping. If I remember right, it begins to emulate tube compression with ~ 6db of headroom left.

carbonfold · #7 07-02-2010, 09:20 AM

Well.... maybe some loose jargon there. Clipping, I mean mainly bottom end "farting out". If the limiter is on and I hit the B string on 12th,13th,14th frets, the bottom end gets the famous SS fart/clipping.

Maybe I'm pushing the amp hard but dunno. Again, I would maybe like going with the 12.0, but with 300w less.... I wonder if it would just be worse on bottoming out.

agedhorse · #8 07-02-2010, 09:57 AM

Is the output limit light flashing hard?

If not, it may be that you have reached the undistorted limits of the speaker. The SVT uses a very short (and in slightly overhung)voice coil with small Xmax (part of the SVT cabinet sound) and with the power of the Shuttle 9.0 you can indeed get well into that territory. Some folks like that sound as part oftheir tone and in a band setting might fit fine for them. It's not for everybody though.

carbonfold · #9 07-02-2010, 10:50 AM

If it's farting/honking out on the low end, yes the limit light is hard on when this happens

agedhorse · #10 07-02-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonfold

If it's farting/honking out on the low end, yes the limit light is hard on when this happens

Then you might be asking a little too much from the amp/cabinet. Since you are at the comfortable limits (power-wise) for the cabinet, you need either more cabinet, a more efficient cabinet or more amp AND cabinet if you need this kind of volume.

carbonfold · #11 07-02-2010, 11:01 AM

Yea, I was think about trading the 610 out right for two 410s or some type of two cab system. But if I do that, would the max12 be a better choice overall?

carbonfold · #12 07-02-2010, 11:36 AM

So what do you think would be the best choice:

9.0 with two 8ohm cabs at 900w
or
12.0 with two 4ohm cabs getting 600w a piece?

I have a few things on the table, but might be able to trade my SVT610HLF for two SVT410HLF. I would assume the 12.0 pushing these two SVT410HLFs (4ohms) it would be steller?

agedhorse · #13 07-02-2010, 11:37 AM

Either way would be ok IMO.

tombowlus · #14 07-02-2010, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonfold

So what do you think would be the best choice:

9.0 with two 8ohm cabs at 900w
or
12.0 with two 4ohm cabs getting 600w a piece?

I have a few things on the table, but might be able to trade my SVT610HLF for two SVT410HLF. I would assume the 12.0 pushing these two SVT410HLFs (4ohms) it would be steller?

Well, that's the crux, right there. If you want to drive two 8-ohm cabs or one 4-ohm cab, I would go with the Shuttle 9.0. If I were going to drive two 4-ohm cabs, I would go with the ShuttleMAX 12.0. That is why I own both.

Edit: I'll also add that the ShuttleMAX 12.0 would get the nod from me with a single cab (or two 8-ohms) if I had a specific use for the two channels (like doubling on upright, or if I wanted to dial in a clean tone and a dirty tone, or whatnot).

carbonfold · #15 07-02-2010, 12:45 PM

So set aside thinking about the preamp sections of these two amp, is the 9.0 with two 8ohm cabs going to be a more powerful amp vs having two 600w amps on 4ohm cabs? I would guess it would be a pretty close one?

tombowlus · #16 07-02-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonfold

So set aside thinking about the preamp sections of these two amp, is the 9.0 with two 8ohm cabs going to be a more powerful amp vs having two 600w amps on 4ohm cabs? I would guess it would be a pretty close one?

I guess the question would be how loud is loud enough. All other things being equal, the SM12.0 driving two 4-ohm cabs is going to be louder than the 9.0 driving two (equivalent) 8-ohm cabs. But if the 9.0 rig is going to loud enough, then the difference may not matter. If it isn't loud enough, then having 25% more power/headroom on tap may be beneficial.

Again, I'd look at it from the perspective of what cab(s) do you have and/or what cab(s) are you likely to use on a gig, and then pick the head that best fits your idea cab lineup.

Thornton Davis · #17 07-02-2010, 01:57 PM

One other small consideration here is that the ShuttleMAX 12.0 has two 600 watt power modules in it. Each one drives its own separate cabinet when connected in parallel. Should one of the power modules fail, the other one will continue on, instead of leaving you dead in the water as you would be if the power module failed in a single module amp like the Shuttle 9.0 for instance. The key word being "redundant" with no single point of failure.

TD

5StringPocket · #18 07-02-2010, 02:02 PM

Sounds like the problem might be the choice of cabs not the head. If you want flat out loud with lots of low end, a pair of efficient 4ohm 410 cabs with a Shuttle Max 12.0 can produce hearing damage.

Otherwise, a Carvin B2000 will deliver enough watts to smoke just about any cab if pushed hard enough.

Sometimes less low frequency and a bump in the low mids gives the sound more balls and translates better in the mix. Also, with the low B on a 5 or 6 string a lot can be said for proper control and attack to make the most of your low notes. If I get too worked up and slam that low B string the cone jumps a lot and sound quality suffers but with a little more finesse I find the lows to be tighter, solid, and more satisfying.

Joeykun · #19 07-11-2010, 10:42 AM

I have been using the Shuttle Max 12.0 with two 4ohm cabs (410s) for 2 months now in all types of venues. Large theaters, Big clubs, Outside Pravilions and the Max 12.0 has plenty of headroom to fill the largest of stages.

Recently I have done a few smaller rooms for some corporate functions. I brought just one 4ohm cab and the Max 12.0 and it was plenty loud and punched with clearity. Some of these smaller rooms I had no PA support and again the 600 watts into the 4ohm cab was plenty to fill the hall.

I have never tried the 9.0 but as far as versitility, I would say the Shuttle Max 12.0 can cover any venue. Plus, you get the added benefit of the FET and TUBE channels with the option of mixing the two. A real winner and the EQ gives you so much tone shaping that you can dial in just about any tone you can imagine. The added tone shaping (that is also on the 9.0) is there and helps with beefing up the low B string on 5ers, get that nice mid scoop slap tone or adding a little sizzle to your high end. This works great with the old school tweeterless cabs! I have never experienced farting out with my 5er using my setup at high volumes

I dont think you can go wrong with either head. But, it's just not an added 300 watts you get with the SM 12, you get a whole boat load of tonal options that you can dial in to suit even the strangest of rooms.

If you like the slightly modern, fast, tight, punchy SS tone with the ability to warm it up or get it grinding with the tube channel I say get the Shuttlemax 12.0 with an Uber 410 4ohm cab and you got yourself a killer rig. Add another 4 ohm cab and you are ready for Madison Square Garden!!! IMHO

carbonfold · #20 07-11-2010, 12:33 PM

Well, I bought the shuttle 9.0 and so far... very happy. Its plenty loud, I just don't think my cab can handle it very well. I ran my AD200B and my VB2 on this cab, but this SS amp is pretty powerful (not to open a can of worms on the all tube vs SS loudness lol) But its much more powerful than I though it would be.

I put it through three shows this weekend and it ran like a champ. Stayed cool and plenty loud. Anyways, once I have a few more shows with it, I'll give my full review

But so far loving it. I just need to get my hands on a Aguilar GS412