Genz Benz Shuttle cutting out

**baba** · #1 10-11-2011, 12:16 PM

Played an outdoor gig the other night and fed the entire band with one event provided not so heavy duty extension cord and presumably 20 or 30 amp circuit. We were obviously overloading it as the LED lights would dim often. We had a pair of powered QSC K subs and tops, guitar amp, keyboard amp, amps for monitors, mixer, and 3 LED lights.

My Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 kept cutting out. It would happen when lights dimmed significantly and/or even when I sang hard sometimes and pushed the amps a bit more. While I was glad it seemed to be protecting itself from fluctuating voltage and problem power, I found it strange that none of the other amps did the same.

Here's my question: Does the technology in these microheads make them more prone to power fluctuations or likely to cut out in these situations?

frankie5string · #2 10-11-2011, 12:29 PM

I'd say possibly. If you're feeding it a fairly dirty power feed it's going to behave no differently than a typical computer. I've seen computers crash randomly only to discover it was the dude in the next room plugging in and starting the band-saw (pardon the pun) on the same circuit. ;-)

I've never had it happen with my TC head but some may be more delicate than others, or have a lower tolerance for trouble. Switching power supplies can be a bit finicky and there's been a resurgence lately in home-stereo power conditioners and rack-conditioners to work around the sensitivities.

agedhorse · #3 10-11-2011, 05:42 PM

If your Shuttle is cutting out from low line protection, that means the voltage is falling below 95 volts and I wouldn't connect anything I value to such a power source. Your amp was protecting itself from a dangerous condion that will improve the long term reliability of your amp.

Also, "power conditioners" will do nothing to help a poor electrical suply condition. The only safe way is to correct the problem by either using a heavier extension cord, or insuring that there is adequate electrical capacity for your needs.

There are voltage regulators available, they are pretty expensive and do not work well for sources with undersized wiring due to the potential for the regulator hunting and overshooting which can also be dangerous to both the connected equipment as well as the regulator.

The advantage of being able to protect against these kinds of faults is improved reliability and the ability to offer a longer and transferrable warranty because of this.

**baba** · #4 10-13-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agedhorse

If your Shuttle is cutting out from low line protection, that means the voltage is falling below 95 volts and I wouldn't connect anything I value to such a power source. Your amp was protecting itself from a dangerous condion that will improve the long term reliability of your amp.

Also, "power conditioners" will do nothing to help a poor electrical suply condition. The only safe way is to correct the problem by either using a heavier extension cord, or insuring that there is adequate electrical capacity for your needs.

There are voltage regulators available, they are pretty expensive and do not work well for sources with undersized wiring due to the potential for the regulator hunting and overshooting which can also be dangerous to both the connected equipment as well as the regulator.

The advantage of being able to protect against these kinds of faults is improved reliability and the ability to offer a longer and transferrable warranty because of this.

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad it's protecting self, that is a good thing. Never had it cut out before or after that night.

What really surprises me is that none of the other amps protected themselves. I'd expect this of all tube Fender guitar amps and the keyboard amp, but the QSC K series stuff just kept on pumping.

frankie5string · #5 10-13-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad it's protecting self, that is a good thing. Never had it cut out before or after that night.

What really surprises me is that none of the other amps protected themselves. I'd expect this of all tube Fender guitar amps and the keyboard amp, but the QSC K series stuff just kept on pumping.

Some of the QSC stuff I've seen is actually rated to work with 90-240 volts... So it's possible the dip was low enough to make your shuttle drop off but still within operating spec for the QSC amps.

**ExaltBass** · #6 10-13-2011, 10:50 AM

Not to divert, or derail. but why is any band relying on other people's under-gauge extension cabling? My band carries enough high quality 12-3 power cabling with us (we do a LOT of outdoor gigs) to run to run 2 100 ft feeder runs, quad distribution boxes and and multiple distribution runs.

frankie5string · #7 10-13-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExaltBass

Not to divert, or derail. but why is any band relying on other people's under-gauge extension cabling? My band carries enough high quality 12-3 power cabling with us (we do a LOT of outdoor gigs) to run to run 2 100 ft feeder runs, quad distribution boxes and and multiple distribution runs.

You'd be surprised what goes for "band wiring" in some small clubs... In most of the groups I'm in, they always travel with a sound man who usually gets a direct connection at the distribution box for two phases... Some bands don't have that luxury and the club-owner throws them a couple of extension cords and says "you're on your own"... :-(

agedhorse · #8 10-13-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad it's protecting self, that is a good thing. Never had it cut out before or after that night.

What really surprises me is that none of the other amps protected themselves. I'd expect this of all tube Fender guitar amps and the keyboard amp, but the QSC K series stuff just kept on pumping.

Tube amps are pretty tolerable of low voltage (they may not sound all that good but generally won't be damaged either) BUT they can be very intolerant of high voltage causing power supply damage.

Everybody chooses different low line and high line threshold tolerances. Many of our products will survive 265 volts on the high line, for example, which is important if you are playing in say Australia or New Zealand, or parts of Africa. Other manufactures may not consider this inportant. IMO, 95 volts is awfully low and can affect the modulator on many SMPS designs, which is why protection is provided.

**baba** · #9 10-13-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExaltBass

Not to divert, or derail. but why is any band relying on other people's under-gauge extension cabling? My band carries enough high quality 12-3 power cabling with us (we do a LOT of outdoor gigs) to run to run 2 100 ft feeder runs, quad distribution boxes and and multiple distribution runs.

All of the outdoor gigs we do (with the exception of this one!) have sound provided. We usually do big wine festivals and city festivals as outdoor gigs. This was a rare occasion when we did sound for a smaller gig and we were told there would be adequate power. I ran sound from on top of my bass rig as well, but that's another story....