Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12.0 problem

[kerrycares]

Yesterday at church in the middle of service the band started smelling fire/smoke and a circuit breaker tripped in the building.

As it turns out it was my SM 12.0 that was powering my Neo 212 cab.

The unit is plugged directly into a power conditioner and the other two units (tuner and powered monitor) were unaffected.

After about an hour I tried to power the unit back up and nothing.

Anyone else experience similar amp failures?

[KJung]

Sounds like a problem with the wiring in the building or some kind of surge took the fuse out on your amp. Have you tried replacing the fuse? Unfortunately, if the surge/issue was bad enough it could have blown the fuse and also caused damage to the amp. Hopefully, that wasn't the case.

Unfortunately, on the rare occasion I blew a fuse on an amp, the damage was already done.

Bummer.

[CL400Peavey]

Oh the bright side. Genz has some of the best customer service in the industry. I would contact Agedhorse here via PM and pick his brain.

[lomo]

Sad evidence as to the supposed merits of a "power conditioner". Sounds as though this did not help.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by lomo

Sad evidence as to the supposed merits of a "power conditioner". Sounds as though this did not help.

+1 Some of the EE's on this site have posted that a 'power conditioner' can actually do more harm than good with an amp, since modern amps have that sort of thing built into their design.

[kerrycares]

Originally Posted by KJung

Sounds like a problem with the wiring in the building or some kind of surge took the fuse out on your amp. Have you tried replacing the fuse? Unfortunately, if the surge/issue was bad enough it could have blown the fuse and also caused damage to the amp. Hopefully, that wasn't the case.

Unfortunately, on the rare occasion I blew a fuse on an amp, the damage was already done.

Bummer.

i'll check it out Ken,thanks.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kerrycares

i'll check it out Ken,thanks.

The burning smell comment makes me think it might be ugly. I hope not! Maybe Andy from Genz will pop in here and give you some tips on how to isolate the issue. If he doesn't, just PM 'agedhorse'. The Genz guys are GREAT at helping diagnose an issue, and the service is awesome if it does need some repair.

Good luck. Hope you are well. I was back in Detroit for one day last week going a presentation downtown. Sorry I didn't have time to get a hang together. Maybe next time!

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Oh the bright side. Genz has some of the best customer service in the industry. I would contact Agedhorse here via PM and pick his brain.

+1... my gut feeling is that your amp will need to be sent in for repair - it happens to the best of them, sometimes...


- georgestrings

[Hapa]

No Agedhorse yet... he is the guru, wait for the exact answer.
However, as far as I have been told it is rare, but If the power modules go bad then it happens quickly. Since nothing else was effected by the short it was likely the just the amp, nothing to do with the building. Send it in to a service center, we will still work on it. how old was the unit, just curious?

[agedhorse]

Sorry I missed this thread this morning...

Interesting. The way the amp is constructed, there are individual fault fuses on the input to each smps that are way faster and way lower than the branch breaker protecting the circuit. Same goes for the "conditioner" which is almost certainly thermal breakers at 15 amps.

1. Are you in the North America and operating at 120 volts?

2. What specific power conditioner were you using?

3. Is it completely dead? I ask because there are dual redundant power supplies which are Very unlikely to both fail (unless the amp receives a gross over voltage fault either from being set to 115v and operated on 230/240v or if there is an intermittent neutral in the feeder or common neutral of shared multiwire branch circuits.

This is unusual and odd enough that I may want to see it myself or work with the service center to diagnose.

Pm me with your info and I will follow up.

[kerrycares]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Sorry I missed this thread this morning...

Interesting. The way the amp is constructed, there are individual fault fuses on the input to each smps that are way faster and way lower than the branch breaker protecting the circuit. Same goes for the "conditioner" which is almost certainly thermal breakers at 15 amps.

1. Are you in the North America and operating at 120 volts?
YES

2. What specific power conditioner were you using?
MONSTER POWER PRO 2500

3. Is it completely dead?
AS A DOOR NAIL

I ask because there are dual redundant power supplies which are Very unlikely to both fail (unless the amp receives a gross over voltage fault either from being set to 115v and operated on 230/240v or if there is an intermittent neutral in the feeder or common neutral of shared multiwire branch circuits.

This is unusual and odd enough that I may want to see it myself or work with the service center to diagnose.

Pm me with your info and I will follow up.

TOOK IT BACK TO HUBER AND THEY ARE SENDING IT BACK OR SERVICING

[dukeorock]

After at least 200 shows I had a 12.0 go 'poof' on me during a show...once I calmed down, I simply plugged into the other power block and was back in business.

Anything can go wrong with any amp...when it does, you're very lucky to have Genz on your side...second to none in dealing with customers

[kerrycares]

agedhorse and Genz Benz have been very responsive.

In the meantime I purchased a STL 900 (again) to power my Aguilar GS412 cab.

I have a great weekend of bass playing with two upright gigs Shuttle 3.0-8T & 10" ext cab and one church service with the STL 900/Aguilar GS412 cab

[kerrycares]

any thoughts on the best 410 cab to pair with the STL 900 to get a funk/smooth jazz tone?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kerrycares

any thoughts on the best 410 cab to pair with the STL 900 to get a funk/smooth jazz tone?

While this head (which emulates an old school all tube head vibe) would be probably the last head I'd choose for that sort of vibe, a tightly voiced cab helps punch it up a bit, and also brighten it up top for a good slap tone (although the Max 9.2 would be a much better choice for that sort of vibe). I had very good luck with the Bergantino AE410 (if you can find a used one) with mine, but it still sounded more old school and fat than punchy and tight and bright. (I know Harrington uses one of these heads, but still can't quite figure that one out!).

I would think the SWR sealed 'Marcus Miller' model 410 would also work pretty well.

Of course, any very good player (like you or Harrington) can use anything for any style and sound fine, but the big, fat, tubey, relaxed in the mids Streamliner is, IMO, a somewhat unusual choice for that style of playing. With a 'tight and bright' cab (the little Bag End 115 that Fredericks uses with his works well), it is a killer head. Takes a bit of knob twisting, but it hammers nicely. I again preferred the Max 9.2 with my J basses, since it had that sort of 'hear the windings on the E string' tone baked in, and much better control of the low end. That head (and the 12) sounded pretty good through anything. The Streamliner can sound GREAT or not so much, given its strong voicing, somewhat limited EQ, and the strong amount of 'all tube emulation' baked into the feel, tone and response of that head.

[kerrycares]

Originally Posted by KJung

While this head (which emulates an old school all tube head vibe) would be probably the last head I'd choose for that sort of vibe, a tightly voiced cab helps punch it up a bit, and also brighten it up top for a good slap tone (although the Max 9.2 would be a much better choice for that sort of vibe). I had very good luck with the Bergantino AE410 (if you can find a used one) with mine, but it still sounded more old school and fat than punchy and tight and bright. (I know Harrington uses one of these heads, but still can't quite figure that one out!).

I would think the SWR sealed 'Marcus Miller' model 410 would also work pretty well.

Of course, any very good player (like you or Harrington) can use anything for any style and sound fine, but the big, fat, tubey, relaxed in the mids Streamliner is, IMO, a somewhat unusual choice for that style of playing. With a 'tight and bright' cab (the little Bag End 115 that Fredericks uses with his works well), it is a killer head. Takes a bit of knob twisting, but it hammers nicely. I again preferred the Max 9.2 with my J basses, since it had that sort of 'hear the windings on the E string' tone baked in, and much better control of the low end. That head (and the 12) sounded pretty good through anything. The Streamliner can sound GREAT or not so much, given its strong voicing, somewhat limited EQ, and the strong amount of 'all tube emulation' baked into the feel, tone and response of that head.

Ken, yeah i'm getting anxious waiting for my SM12.0 to come back. I've been playing the Neo 212 and Geno loaned me his Aguilar GS412 but 12" just aren't quick enough.

thanks

[KJung]

Originally Posted by kerrycares

Ken, yeah i'm getting anxious waiting for my SM12.0 to come back. I've been playing the Neo 212 and Geno loaned me his Aguilar GS412 but 12" just aren't quick enough.

thanks

Streamliner should sound GREAT with the Neo 212, which is pretty tight and bright (the size of the cone has nothing to do with voicing, tone, quickness or anything). Remember with the Streamliner that the gain setting relative to the volume setting has MUCH impact on the tone. Don't be afraid to crank the gain and cut the bass a bit on that head to tighten it up.

It is a shame you sent back the Shuttle Max 9.2. That is just a glorious amp, and again, would give you just that bit more of headroom than running 'half the 12.0' to open up the slap transients, etc. Fantastic amp.... one of the best out there for the smooth jazz sort of thing that you do. You do need to cut back the upper mids and boost the bass a bit, since the Genz Shuttle line is pretty 'tight and bright', but man, that variable bass/boost/hi pass filter, combined with the bass control and cutting back the upper mids on the FET channel is one of the best 'slap/funk' type tones I've achieved.

Of course, the Markbass F500 sounds pretty much just like that set flat, which is what I use for that vibe, since I luckily play in a 'reasonably professional' setting, where I only need to keep up with the volume of an unmic'd drummer. No stupid stage volumes or out of control guitarists.... they would get fired after one gig.

A 212 and a good honest 500 watts gets me there every time

[kerrycares]

Wow,the size of the cone has nothing to do with voicing, tone, quickness or anything? Sounds a bit counter intuitive but if you say so.

http://barefacedbass.com/technical-i...y-response.htm

All I know is I like the sound of 10" vs 12" for electric bass.

thanks .

Originally Posted by KJung

Streamliner should sound GREAT with the Neo 212, which is pretty tight and bright (the size of the cone has nothing to do with voicing, tone, quickness or anything). Remember with the Streamliner that the gain setting relative to the volume setting has MUCH impact on the tone. Don't be afraid to crank the gain and cut the bass a bit on that head to tighten it up.

It is a shame you sent back the Shuttle Max 9.2. That is just a glorious amp, and again, would give you just that bit more of headroom than running 'half the 12.0' to open up the slap transients, etc. Fantastic amp.... one of the best out there for the smooth jazz sort of thing that you do. You do need to cut back the upper mids and boost the bass a bit, since the Genz Shuttle line is pretty 'tight and bright', but man, that variable bass/boost/hi pass filter, combined with the bass control and cutting back the upper mids on the FET channel is one of the best 'slap/funk' type tones I've achieved.

Of course, the Markbass F500 sounds pretty much just like that set flat, which is what I use for that vibe, since I luckily play in a 'reasonably professional' setting, where I only need to keep up with the volume of an unmic'd drummer. No stupid stage volumes or out of control guitarists.... they would get fired after one gig.

A 212 and a good honest 500 watts gets me there every time

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by kerrycares

All I know is I like the sound of 10" vs 12" for electric bass.

Which 10"?
Which 12"?
In what boxes?

[kerrycares]

Originally Posted by wcriley

Which 10"?
Which 12"?
In what boxes?

swr,eden, ampeg 4x10

genz benz,aguilar,lds, swr,eden 2x12 4x12 1x12