Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12.0 tube replacement?

bthiemann80 · #1 06-22-2010, 10:19 PM

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience w/ replacing the preamp tube in the Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12.0 tube channel. No real issues w/ the tube, just looking for a different tube sound, any thoughts?

JimmyM · #2 06-22-2010, 10:40 PM

i don't know if the shuttle max 12.0 fits into this category, but andy the designer for genz benz has said in the past that he designed the shuttles to sound consistent regardless of what tube you use. so i doubt it will make a whole lot of difference.

**Ukiah Bass** · #3 06-22-2010, 10:58 PM

I have experimented with tube replacements on the Shuttle 6 and ShuttleMAX12. I'm now using an old Telefunken instead of the stock Ruby tube. To my ears, there is a definite difference. The Telefunken provides a warmer, richer tone.

Edword · #4 06-22-2010, 11:03 PM

I haven't yet figured out where the tube is in mine, or how to get to it.

Thornton Davis · #5 06-23-2010, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edword

I haven't yet figured out where the tube is in mine, or how to get to it.

It's very simple. Simply unscrew the 12 philips screws on the top of your SM12 to remove it. Do not remove the 2 screws located at the front outer corners at the very front top of the amp. There's one in each front corner.

The tube is located in the front left corner of the amp as you're facing it. If you hold the amp up and look inside it via the fan outlet vent located on the right side of the amp (left side if it's facing you) you can see the tube located just behind the mute, channel switches on the front panel.

TD

Edword · #6 06-23-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thornton Davis

It's very simple. Simply unscrew the 12 philips screws on the top of your SM12 to remove it. Do not remove the 4 screws located across the front top of the amp.

The tube is located in the front left corner of the amp as you're facing it. If you hold the amp up and look inside it via the fan outlet vent located on the right side of the amp (left side if it's facing you) you can see the tube located just behind the mute, channel switches on the front panel.

TD

Thanks for the info...now to find that Genalex I've been saving.

fretno · #7 06-23-2010, 08:00 AM

The Ruby is a rebranded Shuguang "C9" this is a excellent tube IMO and the 12ax7 of choice of Marshall , Mesa , GB and many others , Ruby tests them and rebrands them but IME the tube is always good , strong and consistent no matter if it's branded or not . However I put a Mullard 4004 in my 9.0 and prefer it , it's subtle as tube "rolling" often is . But it does affect it . Do you need to buy a $150 NOS tube , nah in many cases you may actually prefer the C9 so I wouldn't go to crazy over it .

bthiemann80 · #8 06-23-2010, 01:11 PM

Very cool, thanks for the input guys. Any suggestions on a tube that would maxmize clarity or bring more presence to the midrange?

bthiemann80 · #9 07-04-2010, 08:39 PM

Alright, I bit the bullet and after some research bought a 7025 preferred series tube from thetubestore.com. From the reviews posted, it was reported to be very similar to older Ei and Telefunken 12ax7 tubes. It seemed like the 7025 was a little taller than the stock Ruby tube that came w/ the SM12. The switch was easy and the results even better. Before the switch, I compared the tube channel to the FET channel, kept the settings the same on both channels. The main differences I noticed between the two before the switch was that the FET was a little harsh, while the tube channel a bit warmer w/ a kinder break up. After the switch to the 7025, there was a definite difference in tone for the better. The tube channel has much more presence, more headroom and more warmth. I also noted that the low end is now massive, the sound all together sounds much bigger, especially compared to the FET channel. Where before the FET and tube channels were more similar, now the tube channel has a much richer tone. Totally worth it and highly recommended!

Thornton Davis · #10 07-04-2010, 08:44 PM

I pulled the stock Ruby 12AX7 out of my ShuttleMAX 12 last week and replaced it with a TungSol 12AX7. Much better!

TD

Joeykun · #11 07-07-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thornton Davis

I pulled the stock Ruby 12AX7 out of my ShuttleMAX 12 last week and replaced it with a TungSol 12AX7. Much better!

TD

Hmm, I am not sure why you would want to change out the tube at all in the Shuttle Max amps.

I am not one to use alot of tube over drive. I basically use it as a boost to bring the bass out more in the mix.
But, I find the tube to be very musical and has alot of options for both the subtle or down right dirty user.

I am really impressed with this amp as a whole and IME if its not broke...dont fix it!

Thornton Davis · #12 07-07-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeykun

Hmm, I am not sure why you would want to change out the tube at all in the Shuttle Max amps.

I am not one to use alot of tube over drive. I basically use it as a boost to bring the bass out more in the mix.
But, I find the tube to be very musical and has alot of options for both the subtle or down right dirty user.

I am really impressed with this amp as a whole and IME if its not broke...dont fix it!

I grew up playing through tube amps and I love the tone they reproduce which is something that I can't say about solid state amps. If it wasn't for the excessive weight of tube amps i'd still be gigging with mine today.

As to if it ain't broke don't fix it, you should be aware that the 12AX7 Ruby tube that comes installed in your ShuttleMAX is a Chinese made tube. Ruby do not make tubes. They have a Chinese company make them for them and put the Ruby brand name on them. The Chinese don't make the best tubes. Many people say that they're just about the worst available for a number of reasons.

I removed the 12AX7 Ruby from my SM12 and replaced it with a far superior warmer sounding Russian made TungSol 12AX7 tube. And believe me, it's a big improvement tone wise over the Ruby IMO and brings my SM12 closer to reproducing the tone of an all tube amp.

I know what I like, and I like the TungSol tube much better than the Ruby. Hense the change and too each his own.

TD

Joeykun · #13 07-08-2010, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thornton Davis

I grew up playing through tube amps and I love the tone they reproduce which is something that I can't say about solid state amps. If it wasn't for the excessive weight of tube amps i'd still be gigging with mine today.

As to if it ain't broke don't fix it, you should be aware that the 12AX7 Ruby tube that comes installed in your ShuttleMAX is a Chinese made tube. Ruby do not make tubes, they have a Chinese company make them for them and put the Ruby brand them on them. The Chinese don't make the best tubes, in fact many people will say that they're just about the worst available for a number of reasons.

I removed the 12AX7 Ruby from my SM12 and replaced it with a far superior warmer sounding Russian made TungSol 12AX7 tube. And believe me, it's a big improvement tone wise over the Ruby IMO and brings my SM12 closer to reproducing the tone of an all tube amp.

I know what I like, and I like the TungSol tube much better than the Ruby. Hense the change and too each his own.

TD

OK, Cool! I can see how this makes sense for someone that has an ear for tubes. I have always been a SS guy so my knowledge with tube amps is very limited.

Great stuff....I should read up more about the different types of tubes out there. Thanks!

OhulahanBass · #14 07-08-2010, 09:12 AM

Wow, GB amps can get even better? After the initial honeymoon with my 9.0 I might have to swap out the tube to keep my jaw dropped. Right now I find myself loving this amp more and more.

So tube improvements to GB user ears are:

Vintage Telefunken (smooth, ribbed or either?)
New TungSol
7025 from thetubestore.com

Which is the best for warmth and headroom?
Which has the least head room for creamier breakup?

I'd prefer warmth and head room as I don't like to much breakup. My old tube head had surprisingly allot of headroom and clean warm buttery tone that made you feel cozy. That is the tube tone I dig. I'm not huge on to much tube breakup, I prefer dirt to come first in my effects and before the preamp.

bthiemann80 · #15 07-08-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhulahanBass

Which is the best for warmth and headroom?
Which has the least head room for creamier breakup?

I have no idea what the other tube varieties would do for a SM12, but the 7025 preferred series from thetubestore.com definitely has more headroom than the stock ruby. I had to dime the gain to get even a little overdrive where w/ the stock ruby i could get overdrive at about 3 or 4 o'clock. The 7025 has a lot of warmth to my ears, along w/ presence but those two tend to be very subjective terms.

OhulahanBass · #16 07-12-2010, 08:44 AM

Does tube replacement void warranty.

bthiemann80 · #17 07-12-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhulahanBass

Does tube replacement void warranty.

Probably, I can't see how it wouldn't since it involves changing an original piece of the amp.

bucephylus · #18 07-12-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bthiemann80

Probably, I can't see how it wouldn't since it involves changing an original piece of the amp.

Could be, but I would be somewhat stunned if swapping out a 12AX7 type tube would cause issues with GB. Those guys have been way too great with their support for something like that to be an issue. If you stuck a paper clip or something silly in there, might be a different story, depending on how you work with them.

bucephylus · #19 07-12-2010, 11:51 AM

BTW, I still end up using my 6 for most gigs, because, though reputed to be "anemic," it still is way too loud for our sound guy. But, the 12.0 is an amazing beast, and my favorite amplification box, I've yet worked with. Its, best feature for me is the little input Boost button, which allows the 12.0 to absolutely rip with passive basses. Wish the 6 had that feature. Anyhow, the 12.0 sitting on two lightweight 4 ohm 2x12's is an amazing rig. All I will ever need.

OzzyGreg · #20 11-18-2011, 07:53 PM

.

After reading this topic I decided to buy a Tungsol and a 7025 and try both in my ShuttleMax 12.0.

I've just done a comparison of them. To be honest, here in my house (at neighbour friendly level) I can't hear any tonal difference between them!

Headroom wise: all settings equal on both FET and Tube channels the volume levels seem the same to me. This is not at ear bleeding volume mind you, may be different when I can really push it at our next rehearsal.

I've ended up leaving the 7025 in. Simply because it was the last one I fitted.

(BTW, there's 14 screws to remove to get the lid off, not 12.)

Greg