Genz Benz Streamliner 900/Genz Benz GBE 1200/Mesa M9 Carbine taste test

[KsPiNeSh]

Okay - after spending some time comparing these guys I thought I would put some thoughts down on digital paper. Going in, I expected the M9 Carbine and the Streamliner to be a bit more directly comparable, as IMO and IME the GBE 1200 has an inherently grindier sound, smaller low end, and sharper top end than the Carbine. All amps were run through my Uber 410, and I used my Warwick Streamer Stage II, Thumb NT, Spector NS5-H2, and 1982-ish G&L L-1000 for good measure All comments are IMO; for information sake, my ideal tone is quick and defined with a strong midrange, punchy low end, and smooth upper register.

First, a pic of the weapons of sonic destruction - what a GREAT time to be a bassist!



Next, a pic of my favorite Streamliner EQ thus far:



Thoughts with the amps set flat (Carbine on voice 3):

As I suspected, the Streamliner and GBE 1200 were on opposite ends of the spectrum. While the Streamliner maintained solid articulation and clarity, it seems to have an inherent smoothness about it as well as a mid-scoop and a definite extension and girth to the low end (all things noted by other users). The GBE 1200 is bright up top, grindy through the middle, and tight down low. Very different starting points.

The Streamliner and Mesa Carbine were closer, but the Carbine has a fuller mid range, tighter bottom, and sharper highs. While the Mesa is smoother and has a larger natural low end than the GBE 1200, the two amps share a similar quickness and brightness that isn't present in the Streamliner when set flat.

Thoughts playing with the EQs:

Again, as suspected the GBE 1200 didn't really approach the girth and fullness of the Streamliner. Dialing in some serious lows and low mids gave it a lot more warmth and rumble, but even with the LF Extend on and dimed it doesn't have the same "cush" that the Streamliner does... still very quick, snappy, and direct. While I'm not really a heavy-dirt guy, both amps get pretty nasty digging in with the gain cranked. I daresay that the GBE 1200 (or ShuttleMax heads) might have an advantage in this area due to the ability to mix the pre channels - one could EQ the tube channel to only distort the mids and highs, for example. Streamliner, however, got some great OD.

The Carbine and Streamliner really got interesting. After tweaking it and tweaking some more, I got a sound from the M9 that was ~ 90% of the flat Streamliner tone - here is a pic of the settings (ignore the Streamliner EQ in this pic). Voice 2 is a mid-scoop type of setting.



As flexible as the Carbine is, I just couldn't quite get the same natural "girth" that the Streamliner has through my cab. I wish I could describe it better, as the Carbine definitely is NOT lacking in low end, but to my ear it's something specific in the lows that I couldn't quite emulate; rolling some lows out of the Streamliner brings them pretty close together using the Carbine settings shown in the picture. Not surprisingly, using both the 3 tone knobs and the graphic EQ-wise the Mesa can mirror the Streamliner at almost any setting. The Mesa could get nice and vintage-y like the Streamliner, but is a clean machine and can't match the grit and grind of the 'Liner at high gains.

Volume-wise, all 3 amps get stupid loud and I didn't push it too much. Couldn't get any of the 3 to break a sweat, even with the lows boosted and my basement walls about to fall in on me. Both Genz amps have very flexible gain structuring and sound great at high or low volumes; in contrast, as has been mentioned countless other times the taper of the master volume for the Carbine goes from zero to "Look at me!!" in millimeters. One can control that via the gain knob, but Mesa's gain knobs tend to impact the tone moreso than other manufacturers IME and I don't like to touch it. The Mesa also has a bit of an inherent hiss that isn't present in either Genz amp - they're dead silent.

In the end, IMO the Carbine would be a great choice for someone that likes to have a Streamliner-type tone (big lows, articulate, usable mid-scoop) available in a crazy-wide range of EQ options/likes the compressor/doesn't like microheads/whatever. The Streamliner has a lot of heft to its sound (first amp I've ever owned that I turned the lows down on) and there is a surprising amount of tonal control and versatility available in a straightforward package - I would be comfortable describing it as "Genz Benz does tubes". The GBE 1200 is quick, beefy, and provides an array of tonal options provided that you like a tight, controlled low end.

Probably not saying much people didn't already know, but thought I'd share Time to go do something productive before my wife gets home...

[coolrunner989]

Thanks for the review, nicely done.

I had the GBE600 for a while, now I've got the Shuttle 9.0. I feel like it would fall into the Streamliner side of things wrt the low end and slight mid scoop. Good stuff!

[Crabby]

This is a great comparison. As a Carbine and Walkabout owner, I am anxious to hear how the Streamliner compares to the Walkabout as well.

Its is a great time to be a bass player indeed but a bad time to have amp GAS!

[Jazzdogg]

Thanks for the review. Your description of your tonal preferences mirrors my own.

I auditioned a Streamliner 900 with a Mesa 4x10 at a local store using my fretless 55-02 strung with TI flats. With the Streamliner and my bass both set flat, a heard an undefined tub of mud. It was a huge let-down after reading so many positive reviews. I'll have to go back with one of my 3-way cabs and try again.

[JimiLL]

Awesome review Brian.....

i am truly jealous of your gear...

[Waterpilot]

Great review man!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Thanks for the review. Your description of your tonal preferences mirrors my own.

I auditioned a Streamliner 900 with a Mesa 4x10 at a local store using my fretless 55-02 strung with TI flats. With the Streamliner and my bass both set flat, a heard an undefined tub of mud. It was a huge let-down after reading so many positive reviews. I'll have to go back with one of my 3-way cabs and try again.

\you could try turning knobs

[lo-freq]

Thanks for the very informative review!

If Mesa would to a more gradual taper on the Carbines, I'd definitely be more interested in them.

I'd have to play a Streamliner myself with the rest of my equipment to know if I would be able to live with its clean tone.

Basically, the M9 and the ShuttleMax 9.2 seem to come closer to the tone goals that I prefer.

[Vic]

Excellent review, and your results don't come as too much of a surprise. When you have that many true tube valve stages involved in the front end, it's gonna' do some really nicely complex things to the tone. Even though the Carbine has a tube in it, I consider its effects to be pretty subtle.

It'd be interesting to have you now also spend a little time with the MB Fusion. Totally different tonal target on that one, BUT, it might be interesting if you heard the same low end complexity since they both have all those tube stages in the pre.

One other interesting point, I hear you on the OD stuff, 'cause I also like to have clean/dirty mixed, not pure dirty, BUT, one of the things that Ed's video seemed to show the SL can do that I don't really hear as much in the Carbine is the "crunch". That's where the signal is still mostly clean but just cresting that beautiful tube rollover. I've never heard a transistor pre'd amp be able to do it in that nicely harmonic way. I've heard some really nice emulations, but you just gotta' have tubes to do it right. I try to do that with the Carbine, but it's SO strongly designed to stay clean you just can't really get there. I've tried it with other amps that have the single tube in the pre, and similarly it just doesn't really happen.

I have yet to hit an SL personally, but at least from what I've seen/heard in vids and posts, it seems like the SL has finally brought a truly faithful old-school tube sound to the lightweight platform without giving anything up harmonically, and without having to suffer Ampeg's voicing choices (sorry Ampeg fans, I respect their well-earned heritage, but personally hate their voicing).

Anyway, mainly after hearing Ed's video with the SL900, I just know at some point I'm gonna' get me one. Just not sure exactly when.

[BuffaloBob4343]

THanks for your insight. I would compare the GBE 1200 and the strea$mliner much the same way you did.

Tight punchy low-end and mids, snappy and abit grindy on the highs. I love that sound in a live mix. Sounds great recorded to BTW. The Streamliner has much more extended lows, but they remain very tight and articulate. Mids that are slightly compressed and not quite as punnch and not quite as punchy. Highs that are smootherand a. Bit more open.

Genz does tubes, I like that!

[BuffaloBob4343]

Originally Posted by Vic

Excellent review, and your results don't come as too much of a surprise. When you have that many true tube valve stages involved in the front end, it's gonna' do some really nicely complex things to the tone. Even though the Carbine has a tube in it, I consider its effects to be pretty subtle.

It'd be interesting to have you now also spend a little time with the MB Fusion. Totally different tonal target on that one, BUT, it might be interesting if you heard the same low end complexity since they both have all those tube stages in the pre.

One other interesting point, I hear you on the OD stuff, 'cause I also like to have clean/dirty mfixed, not pure dirty, BUT, one of the things that Ed's video seemed to show the SL can do that I don't really hear as much in the Carbine is the "crunch". That's where the signal is still mostly clean but just cresting that beautiful tube rollover. I've never heard a transistor pre'd amp be able to do it in that nicely harmonic way. I've heard some really nice emulations, but you just gotta' have tubes to do it right. I try to do that with the Carbine, but it's SO strongly designed to stay clean you just can't really get there. I've tried it with other amps that have the single tube in the pre, and similarly it just doesn't really happen.

I have yet to hit an SL personally, but at least from what I've seen/heard in vids and posts, it seems like the SL has finally brought a truly faithful old-school tube sound to the lightweight platform without giving anything up harmonically, and without having to suffer Ampeg's voicing choices (sorry Ampeg fans, I respect their well-earned heritage, but personally hate their voicing).

Anyway, mainly after hearing Ed's video with the SL900, I just know at some point I'm gonna' get me one. Just not sure exactly when.

I'm with you on the respect to Ampeg BUT don't care for the voicing. I would call the Streamliner a cross between Ampeg warmth and depth with the modern articulation.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Vic

and without having to suffer Ampeg's voicing choices (sorry Ampeg fans, I respect their well-earned heritage, but personally hate their voicing).

that's fine vic, but again, i'll remind everyone of the knobs

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

\you could try turning knobs

So that's what those cylindrical protuberances are called.

I think I'd prefer to knob-twiddle while using one of my own cabs, just because I'm so familiar with their inherent sounds; tweaking a head I've never used before to achieve "my sound" with a cabinet I don't own or intend to buy seems like a bit of a dead-end street to me.

That, and I still have a bit of a sour taste in my mouth from the Shuttle 6.0 I used to own; it was the first GB amp I bought, and it also received high praise on TB, but I ended up trading it after several months because I simply didn't like the way it sounded through any of my cabs on a gig.

Yeah, I know: boo effing hoo!

[JimmyM]

lol!

i'll admit i often do the same thing. but i do go through the knobs and see what they do after that. and then i ask my wife if we can afford it, she says no, and i go home

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by coolrunner989

Thanks for the review, nicely done.

I had the GBE600 for a while, now I've got the Shuttle 9.0. I feel like it would fall into the Streamliner side of things wrt the low end and slight mid scoop. Good stuff!

By chance, the TBer I sold my Spector to this weekend was running a 9.0 through an Avatar 210 cab. It was the first time I had heard one in person and didn't really fiddle with it, but he had some wicked tone going on there - pretty deep and round, esp. for a 210. To my ears they were definitely more similar than different, though I'd peg the SL as just a touch deeper than what I heard this weekend.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

that's fine vic, but again, i'll remind everyone of the knobs

Yeah I know, but I just could never get what I wanted, no matter how I had the switches set and no matter what I did with the... what again... oh yeah... knobs.

I've been around a while... I played through SVT's and V4B's back when they were at the top of their game in the bass amp market. Spent many long frustrating hours fiddling with those... umm... oh yeah... knobs.

Just boils down to Ampeg's base voicing and how they chose to implement the tone stack on top of it. Just quite simply not my thing at all.

Now, from what I've heard of the SL900... that seems to be quite another story so far...

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Thanks for the review. Your description of your tonal preferences mirrors my own.

I auditioned a Streamliner 900 with a Mesa 4x10 at a local store using my fretless 55-02 strung with TI flats. With the Streamliner and my bass both set flat, a heard an undefined tub of mud. It was a huge let-down after reading so many positive reviews. I'll have to go back with one of my 3-way cabs and try again.

I can see where that could happen. IMO and IME, Laklands are a bit dark anyway, Mesa 410 cabs are bland to my ears, flats are flats, and the Streamliner is woolier than other Genz heads. Very possibly a bad combination - another try could very well be a different story.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Vic

It'd be interesting to have you now also spend a little time with the MB Fusion. Totally different tonal target on that one, BUT, it might be interesting if you heard the same low end complexity since they both have all those tube stages in the pre.

I just did an A/B today. I had back to back gigs (and another tonight), I used the Fusion on the first, S900 on the second. This was with the Roscoe C5 fretless and Berg AE210. Then I came home and ran both heads through the BergAE112 using Roscoe C5 fretless, Rob Allen Deep 5 fretless, and my new Fender AmStd P-bass. To distill it all down - very different heads. Not even close imho (set flat - yes, Jimmy, I know there are knobs to play with ).

The S900 is very wooly and fat down low. In fact, I'm finding it a bit too much for me with the RA and Roscoe. I can dial bass down on the instrument, but I don't like the way that ends up. I've ended up running the S900 as shown on this thread - bass dialed back, a bit of 600hz mid dialed in as well as some treble.

After playing with the knobs, what I came down to was that I preferred the Rob Allen and the Roscoe through the Fusion. Maybe it is just that I play in some busy mixes (keyboard player with a happy left hand), but I've grown to like a lot of articulation in the mids with it not too thick down low.

The P-bass though...I didn't dig it through the Fusion (too thin and ganky), but my gawd, it KILLED through the S900. Seriously killed.

At any rate, take that with a salt lick. I'll play through both heads tonight (one in the first set, another in the second) and have some more thoughts of it in a louder mix as today's afternoon gigs were pretty tame. But bottom line is that the MB Fusion and S900 are totally different sounds imho.

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by Vic

It'd be interesting to have you now also spend a little time with the MB Fusion. Totally different tonal target on that one, BUT, it might be interesting if you heard the same low end complexity since they both have all those tube stages in the pre.

Originally Posted by nostatic

At any rate, take that with a salt lick. I'll play through both heads tonight (one in the first set, another in the second) and have some more thoughts of it in a louder mix as today's afternoon gigs were pretty tame. But bottom line is that the MB Fusion and S900 are totally different sounds imho.

I've owned a 700RB-II a couple of times and realllllllly wanted to like it, but I'm just not a fan of the GK low end. A lot of other people make them sound fantastic, but they just don't sound good in my rig. I'd certainly try one if someone had one handy, but picking one up for myself is not on the list.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I just did an A/B today. I had back to back gigs (and another tonight), I used the Fusion on the first, S900 on the second...

Cool. Makes sense. Have you seen Ed's video, do you feel it fairly represents the tone? The reason I ask is because some of the sounds he gets on it are quite nice and clean, and at least from the vid, I wouldn't call them "woolly", tho as soon as he gets into the grit and distortion I would.

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh

I've owned a 700RB-II a couple of times and realllllllly wanted to like it, but I'm just not a fan of the GK low end. A lot of other people make them sound fantastic, but they just don't sound good in my rig. I'd certainly try one if someone had one handy, but picking one up for myself is not on the list.

Keep in mind that, while the MB Fusion is a GK and is generally voiced accordingly, it's not the same animal as the RB heads.