Genz Benz Streamliner, Part 10

[KJung]

Originally Posted by willsellout

That helps, thanks. So maybe I need to take a look at the bass knob and fiddle with it during practice and try to find a happy medium.

I'll say it again, I really wish the manual for the Streamliner had more info in it. I'm lucky to know about TB, but for someone who doesn't, they could have a lot of frustration trying to "get" the amp without this kind of info. It's my one and only complaint. I always thought quite a few companies could learn from Eden and what they had put in their manuals. I never had any questions about the operation of any of the Eden stuff I owned.

I'm still curious to hear about the power handling of the NX2. I have no idea how much power is going to the speaker but my pants were flapping. And like I said, everything sounded fine. I'm not overly concerned, though.

I feel the Streamliner is one of the most complicated amps on the market. The Max 9.2 with all those knobs... simple as pie. The Streamliner, with everything interacting... gain, volume, midrange, bass control, etc., etc., it can get a bit crazy. It is worth the time to really get to know it IMO and IME, but it is not a 'take it out of the box, plug it in, and play' sort of amp. And, IMO, just like many all tube amps, it seems quite sensitive to cab matching, and can sound wonderful, or a bit flubby depending on the cab, no matter how you turn the knobs.

Good luck. Don't be afraid to really twist those tone knobs, and don't be afraid to really experiment with different gain levels and gain/volume ratios, with and without the boost.

[willsellout]

Yeah it's not simple at all. It sounds great though. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by willsellout

If I'm being honest, I didn't think i'd be hitting the limiter at all with a 900 watt amp.

...As an aside, I had played with GK 800RB's for years in bands and never got the volume past noon. I'm having to push the Streamliner quite a bit harder to be heard.

Agedhorse is the expert on your cab, but I suspect that you'd have to light the LED for longer periods to damage your NX2.

As Ken pointed out, amp-wise, the only thing you're pushing hard, is the knob. There's still quite a bit of power left after that LED starts flashing, and no-one has reported overheating or cut-outs when pushing the amp hard, even in hot outdoor conditions.

I'd be more concerned about the cab.

Still, My little 4 ohm AudioKinesis cab is only rated for 450-500 watts. On a couple of louder gigs, I drove the Streamliner hard enough to flash the 3DPM LED gently on peaks. No signs of distress from the Genz, although I was definitely pushing the cab about as hard as it wants to go. Months later, the cab is still working great, and none the worse for wear.

More to the point, if you're getting that loud, why not simply adjust your EQ for the conditions?

Backing off the bass a bit more will buy you back a bunch of headroom, and reduce the stress on your cab. Enough to let you go quite a bit louder, and you'll still be sporting a much louder, fatter signal than you ever got out of your RB800...

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by willsellout

OK thanks. I doubt I'd need any more volume, but how much farther could I push that volume before I ran into issues? I remember Ken Jung posting you could bring the master all the way the 3 O'clock and still sound musical. Or is it a game of messing with the gain, preamp volume, and master volume?

I'm playing this through your new NX2 212. Everything sounded fine last night, but how likely is the STL900 to damage the 212?


thanks!

Dan

To me, it sounds like you might be needing more volume than a 212 will reliably deliver...

For example, I did a rehearsal last night with my loud 2 guitar band, and the Streamliner 900 into my Eminence Kappa LFA loaded Peavey 215D-BW... I was using the RCA NOS 5751 in V1 for the 1st time in a band setting, playing a Gibby T-Bird, Am Standard Jazz(in series), and a Music Man SUB5 - Gain button "In", Gain @ 11 o'clock, Volume @ 1 o'clock - Bass, Mid, Mid Freq, Treble @ noon, 2 o'clock, 2.5k, and 1 o'clock respectively... I was loud enough with the Master Volume @ 11 o'clock, and never saw even a flicker of the limiter light, against a pair of Triple Rec halfstacks...

With the 600 version, I'd go to 1 o'clock with the Master in the same band setting, with the limiter lighting up fairly frequently - no ill effects from that, though...

In short - I wonder if you're pushing that 212 a bit too hard for long term reliability, given what you just described...


- georgestrings

[KJung]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

To me, it sounds like you might be needing more volume than a 212 will reliably deliver...

For example, I did a rehearsal last night with my loud 2 guitar band, and the Streamliner 900 into my Eminence Kappa LFA loaded Peavey 215D-BW... I was using the RCA NOS 5751 in V1 for the 1st time in a band setting, playing a Gibby T-Bird, Am Standard Jazz(in series), and a Music Man SUB5 - Gain button "In", Gain @ 11 o'clock, Volume @ 1 o'clock - Bass, Mid, Mid Freq, Treble @ noon, 2 o'clock, 2.5k, and 1 o'clock respectively... I was loud enough with the Master Volume @ 11 o'clock, and never saw even a flicker of the limiter light, against a pair of Triple Rec halfstacks...

With the 600 version, I'd go to 1 o'clock with the Master in the same band setting, with the limiter lighting up fairly frequently - no ill effects from that, though...

In short - I wonder if you're pushing that 212 a bit too hard for long term reliability, given what you just described...


- georgestrings

+1 I'd be a bit careful there if you are hitting that power management output level and really cranking. That is a wonderful 212, but it is a 212. A lot of power can get the most out of a moderate sized cab, and it can also blow the heck out of it. Again, just because the Streamliner will continue to get loud and stay nice sounding way into the taper of the master volume does not mean that will solve your volume issues, which are usually 'cab limited'.

Use your ears, as posted earlier, go easy on the low end. Again, your GK will most likely sound just as loud with that cab due to the mid response and lack of true low end from that head. Cranking the big low end of the Streamliner eats power (the good news is, the Streamliner has plenty), but also can be a bit rough on speaker cabs.

You SHOULD be just fine, but use your ears, and if you do gig after gig where the Streamliner is hitting the power management deal (meaning it is putting out some significant wattage), you MIGHT have to consider a larger cab.

[willsellout]

The bass control on the streamliner is at 830 or so. I also cut the bass on my G&L. Im not exactly sure how much lower i can go with the bass controls. The tone is where i like it and I'd just like to get that same tone but louder.

Im really hoping i don't need a new cab. Like i said right now the volume is good and the cab seems to handle it fine. But if i needed more volume at some point I might be stuck.

[Not yet]

May want to check out another 900 see if it has same challenges. Mine never gets near noon even when we're cranked at the biker bar. Thru 2 Neox112Ts so relatively similar

Unless you guys are reaaalllly loud can't see you needing more

[woolysock]

^^^
That's what I'm thinking. Must be real loud. I run gain @ noon, gain button NOT engaged, volume @ 2, bass @ 9:30 and the master never gets past 11 because that's plenty loud. And I have a 5751 in V1...

[Nino D]

Played a gig last week with my 900 and Ubber 212. Some songs , I thought my bass needed more volume. Master around noon. But when I talked to people out front, they said the bass was loud and clear. Might just depend on where Im standing.

[smeet]

Sorry to say, I traded my Streamliner 900 away. I just wasn't using it any more now that I have acclimated to the ShuttleMax 9.2 . The attack and feel of the Streamliner is wonderful and was overall more pleasing to my ear, but I couldn't get the brighter, more midrangey tones I need for my current bands.

I had to rectify my cardinal sin of not owning a P-bass, so the STM had to go.

Ba-bye guys... (slowly waves and recedes into the distance)...

[Green Lantern]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

My Streamliner is up on the classified's right now. Not because it isn't a great amp (it is!), but because with my current gear, I think a ShuttleMax would be a better fit.

What is the difference between the Streamliner and Shuttle? More tubes in the Streamliner I thought was the main difference. What is the difference between the two? What is the strength and weakness of both?

[Marty Forrer]

How are you guys finding the 5751 in V1? I have a GT 5751 Mullard reproduction which I might try.

[smeet]

Originally Posted by Green Lantern

What is the difference between the Streamliner and Shuttle? More tubes in the Streamliner I thought was the main difference. What is the difference between the two? What is the strength and weakness of both?

VERY different voices and eq capabilities. The Streamliner has a built-in tubey feel and quirky eq controls. The Shuttles have a pretty clean/flat sound that some would call clinical or bass-shy. The ShuttleMax has two channels, each with two sweepable mid bands and three filters. Not as warm and fat as the Streamliner, but MUCH more flexible, especially for more modern, aggressive tones. For old-school fatness, the Streamliner rules.

How are you guys finding the 5751 in V1? I have a GT 5751 Mullard reproduction which I might try.

I felt it tightened up the low end considerably, really made the amp more usable in a boomy environment.

[Mastermold]

Anyone know if GB is making any changes to the SL for 2013?

[agedhorse]

As far as cabinets go, any 212 is going to be somewhat limited if you need to be really loud and really low. At that point, it's probably more productive to be using the PA to carry the room more. It's also possible that if you tip the cabinet up maybe 10 degrees it might feel louder to you while still coupling to the room ok.

Nope, no changes to existing product.

[Marty Forrer]

Cheers for that smeet!

[TinIndian]

Originally Posted by smeet

I felt it tightened up the low end considerably, really made the amp more usable in a boomy environment.

+1

[Tugboat]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

This is exactly why there are the Streamliner and Shuttle flavors. They are really targeted towards distinctly different tastes and preferences. Neither are better or worse, just different.

This is so true and it's killing me right now. I have a SM 9.2 and an Aggie TH500, which I realy like both. I used to have a Streamliner 900 and really want another, but definitely don't need, and can't afford three heads, so I need to sacrifice one of the aforementioned for a new 900. Tough call. I'm using a NeoX 212T as a main cab and I know it will slam with the 900. Also thinking about a Baer 112 in the future. Ah, GAS pains. Decisions, decisions.

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by Not yet

May want to check out another 900 see if it has same challenges. Mine never gets near noon even when we're cranked at the biker bar. Thru 2 Neox112Ts so relatively similar

Unless you guys are reaaalllly loud can't see you needing more

Moderate drummer, one very loud guitarist.

[Mastermold]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Nope, no changes to existing product.

Good! Thanks!