Genz Benz Streamliners for sale: question

[rpsands]

Not sure what you guys are talking about not being plug and play :P I twisted knobs for like a minute and was rocking like crazy.

[jlepre]

+1 RP

[Rockin Mike]

There aren't that many knobs but the amp has huge big bottom, more than I like.
I turn the bass knob down to zero and the midrange selector to its lowest setting.
That provides a 2-band EQ in practical terms which fortunately sounds fine to me.
Very punchy with the bass and low mids set like that.
The treble is natural sounding but I have to adjust the cabinet's tweeter to reign it in a little bit.

The real tone magic is in the gain and volume knobs in the preamp section.
Dial in the amount of grit you want with the gain... You will hear tonal changes before you hear actual distortion,
then bring up the preamp volume to the right level to drive your effects loop and power amp.
Use the power amp volume to bring the whole thing up or down to suit the room.

After that onboard EQ at the bass is all I need to get whatever sounds I want.
Now; that is a bit problematic because changing the bass knob on my instrument changes its output level and I have to tweak the compressor to compensate, but my thought is if you're constantly tweaking your sound you're not doing it rite anyway.

This is still an awesome amp for its low price, light weight, good sound and overall reliability.

[Sav'nBass]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Not sure what you guys are talking about not being plug and play :P I twisted knobs for like a minute and was rocking like crazy.

I think what they mean is that it isn't as clear cut as on other amps as far as tone controls go. You have to fiddle with it a bit more beyond the standard stuff.. If you were able to find the tone you like fairly quick then that's a plus for you. I never didn't like it.. but as I learned the amp more I liked it more and as I played with it more I was able to get more of what I like out of it.. It wasn't love at first listen like the 9.0 was. At least for me.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Sav'nBass

I think what they mean is that it isn't as clear cut as on other amps as far as tone controls go. You have to fiddle with it a bit more beyond the standard stuff.. If you were able to find the tone you like fairly quick then that's a plus for you. I never didn't like it.. but as I learned the amp more I liked it more and as I played with it more I was able to get more of what I like out of it.. It wasn't love at first listen like the 9.0 was. At least for me.

+1 Very different head, and much more complex interaction between the tone stack and gain than any other amp I've owned except the MPulse line of Mesa amps.

With cabs that were voiced a bit closer to the designer's vision (i.e., my Berg AE410), it sounded good just tweaked from 'neutral'. With more open sounding cabs, it was a bit more of an issue and the end settings were quite surprising to me after working with those interactive controls quite a bit.

If you are a geek like me, I agree, not THAT difficult. But for those who are used to boosting the low end a smidge and letting loose, this head can be a bit of a shock.

[4Mal]

I characterize my 600 as not revealing itself easily. Definately worth the extra time to me though. I am a huge gk fan and in yhat context, the Streamliner has added to the tonal pallet significantly. I like it a big fat bunch.

[rpsands]

Originally Posted by Sav'nBass

I think what they mean is that it isn't as clear cut as on other amps as far as tone controls go. You have to fiddle with it a bit more beyond the standard stuff.. If you were able to find the tone you like fairly quick then that's a plus for you. I never didn't like it.. but as I learned the amp more I liked it more and as I played with it more I was able to get more of what I like out of it.. It wasn't love at first listen like the 9.0 was. At least for me.

I completely disagree about the term "not plug and play" but I will agree the tone stack is different than a normal amp.

Just like with the Orange BT500, you kinda have to treat it like a tube amp when you EQ it.

That said, it was extremely intuitive in my opinion, but I've spent a lot of time with tube amps.\

Also, the Streamliner and BT500 were both matches made in heaven with all of the fearful cabs (More wide open I guess?). It seriously took me less than a minute to get the 1515/66 sounding so good with either that people were walking over from the other side of the room to gawk--moreso the BT500 honestly, but the Streamliner held its own.

Turn knobs and listen. Not really that complicated.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I completely disagree about the term "not plug and play" but I will agree the tone stack is different than a normal amp.

Just like with the Orange BT500, you kinda have to treat it like a tube amp when you EQ it.

That said, it was extremely intuitive in my opinion, but I've spent a lot of time with tube amps.

If you have spent a lot of time with all tube amps, +1 the whole amp will seem 'like home' +1.

Most who buy it have not (based on the many, many, many, posts from owners asking for a bit of help).

I had zero issues dialing it in, but have spent much time helping others who have had issues. I also, as 4Mal posted, found quite a bit of additional tonal variation over time, which again is a good thing.

I again find the similarities with an all tube amp to be the Streamliner's main positive, and it is relatively unique in hybrids. There is a learning curve though if you are coming from the more standard tone stack and gain behavior of Markbass, GK, whatever.

That all being said, it is the least 'plug and play' amp I've ever owned (except for maybe the MPulse600).... defining 'plug and play' as taking it out of the box, setting it neutral, and having it sound great with virtually any cab you play it through with very little knob twisting.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Also, the Streamliner and BT500 were both matches made in heaven with all of the fearful cabs (More wide open I guess?). It seriously took me less than a minute to get the 1515/66 sounding so good with either that people were walking over from the other side of the room to gawk--moreso the BT500 honestly, but the Streamliner held its own.

Turn knobs and listen. Not really that complicated.

The whole point here is for buyers to not reject the amp after the first 15 minutes without putting in a bit of time understanding the relationship between the gain, the boost, the volume, and the interactive nature of the EQ!

If it sounds great right away, or you 'totally get it', that is awesome. If it is a bit confusing, give it a bit of time, and check out all the very good posts on the gain structure and EQ in the mega thread before you give up on it!

[rpsands]

Just my two pence, but I expect that people who give up on the Streamliner after 15 minutes would have similar problems with pretty much any amp.

I would bet my bottom dollar that the reason so many are getting flipped is twofold:
1) It came out just a year or two ago and there's a huge flock of people who buy new stuff and then flip it.

2) Genz new prices always come way down right before Namm, since new stuff comes out.

This same exact phenomena happened with the the NeoPak, the first round of Shuttles, and now it's happening with the Streamliners.

People realize they paid full price for them new and want to get rid of them before folks realize that they're selling new for 20-30% off on Ebay (or from retailers if you haggle) because they're clearing out inventory ahead of NAMM or whatever.

And they want to finance the new thing

Evidence to support my theory:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...-bass-amp-head --> 959.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genz-Benz-St...802#vi-content --> 699.00

All the guys who got taken paying 959 for them are trying to get rid of them for 600-700 before everyone realizes the price tanked. (And the real used price should be closer to 450-500...which it will maybe 6 months from now)

Happens every year :P

[Sav'nBass]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I completely disagree about the term "not plug and play" but I will agree the tone stack is different than a normal amp.

Just like with the Orange BT500, you kinda have to treat it like a tube amp when you EQ it.

That said, it was extremely intuitive in my opinion, but I've spent a lot of time with tube amps.

Yeah I understand what you are saying.. but my experience since staring up again in 2000 was with a SWR La-15 combo, an Ampeg Ba-115 combo a 6.0, 9.0 .. and then the 900. I found that I could not use the same EQ settings in the previous amps on the 900' I didn't fully understand the term "tubey goodness" until I got the 900 actually and I suspect my full understanding will still not be complete until I can actually hear an all tube bass amp.. but I kind of get it.

Originally Posted by KJung

If you have spent a lot of time with all tube amps, +1 the whole amp will seem 'like home' +1.
Most who buy it have not (based on the many, many, many, posts from owners asking for a bit of help).

That all being said, it is the least 'plug and play' amp I've ever owned (except for maybe the MPulse600).... defining 'plug and play' as taking it out of the box, setting it neutral, and having it sound great with virtually any cab you play it through with very little knob twisting.

Originally Posted by rpsands

Just my two pence, but I expect that people who give up on the Streamliner after 15 minutes would have similar problems with pretty much any amp.

I would bet my bottom dollar that the reason so many are getting flipped is twofold:
1) It came out just a year or two ago and there's a huge flock of people who buy new stuff and then flip it.

2) Genz new prices always come way down right before Namm, since new stuff comes out.

This same exact phenomena happened with the the NeoPak, the first round of Shuttles, and now it's happening with the Streamliners.

People realize they paid full price for them new and want to get rid of them before folks realize that they're selling new for 20-30% off on Ebay (or from retailers if you haggle) because they're clearing out inventory ahead of NAMM or whatever.

And they want to finance the new thing

Evidence to support my theory:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/ampli...-bass-amp-head --> 959.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genz-Benz-St...802#vi-content --> 699.00

All the guys who got taken paying 959 for them are trying to get rid of them for 600-700 before everyone realizes the price tanked. (And the real used price should be closer to 450-500...which it will maybe 6 months from now)
Happens every year :P

Yeah I agree.. I have to say though that folr me TB was a Godsend because I have tried more decent gear than I ever would have been able to otherwise. My entire current setup comes from the classis here, amp, bass, cab, including the bag I hold my amp in and my bass bag.

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by KJung

That all being said, it is the least 'plug and play' amp I've ever owned (except for maybe the MPulse600).... defining 'plug and play' as taking it out of the box, setting it neutral, and having it sound great with virtually any cab you play it through with very little knob twisting.

I'm with RP, it's the most plug and play amp ever made. Super cereal.

[Tunaman]

If you have cabs & basses that are too grindy, aggressive, middy & you want more warmth, this is the amp for you

If you combine a warm cab & a warm bass with this, its too much of a good thing

[Wally Malone]

I know of someone and have read things here from others on TB that are Streamliner owners going to the ShuttleMax 9.2. I don't think it has to do with any dislike for the Streamliner but their love for the GB sound and now able to have a choice of two EQ settings.

Wally

[4StringsEnough]

Originally Posted by redwood

I see all kinds of GB Streamliners for sale all of a sudden.
Any idea why all of a sudden all the Streamliner owners would be ditching them?

Maybe, since buying it, they've had the chance to try the Markbass TTE500? ;-)

[KJung]

Again, to the OP, there is NOTHING unusual about the number of Streamliners for sale in the classifieds. Lots sold means a few are going to come up used every once in a while. There have been weeks and weeks and weeks with none for sale, and now there are a few. Spurious causal link with any meaningful issue IMO, and nothing 'unusual' about it.

To your original question, again, no reliability issues, etc. and they aren't upgrading/revising that head in 2013, so you won't be getting 'last year's model', which sometimes happens when you buy something this close to NAMM.

Again, the amp's voicing and the nature of the tone controls are quite different on this amp versus most other hybrids. This can be a non issue or you might have to spend some time with it before it speaks to you, given the very strong relationship between the gain settings and the EQ settings, which can be quite different if you have always played more traditional solid state heads. Of course, you may just not dig it like any other piece of gear.

Also, another thing to realize if/when you get one is that Genz uses Audiotaper pots on the master volume. This is a wonderful thing (Glockenklang uses this pot taper design also), resulting in the volume going up more linearly with the position of the knob. This means you have to turn the master knob to a MUCH higher position than other heads. Again, this is a good thing, since it gives you much more control over small volume changes when needed, but if you don't realize it, you might thing the amp doesn't 'get as loud as it should'.

The 'boost' button also has quite an impact on the entire EQ and gain section, and unlike most other amps, should not be considered a 'pad' control, or even a 'reverse pad control' (i.e., just boosting a low signal instrument). It really is part of the tone circuit to my ear, and the gain stage will act quite differently with it in and out.