Genz Benz vs. Carvin bx500 vs ???

jzucker · #1 06-09-2010, 09:02 PM

So, my carvin bx500 crapped out in my basement after only 4 days. I did love the tone and feature set. How do the genz benz amps compare? I like the clarity of the carvin and don't want to go back to the muddyness of the markbass setup.

Many of the bass amps out there seem to have the treble freq centered at 10k which doesn't work for me.

Any other suggestions? Epifunky?

blmeier7 · #2 06-09-2010, 09:10 PM

Are you looking at any specific head from GB? There are some differences in the various GB heads IMO.

I had one of the first BX500's and ended up sending it back to Carvin because it wasn't great. It wasn't horrible, just not worth keeping. I AB'ed my Carvin B1500 next to the BX500 and like the B1500 MUCH more.

I also still use the Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12 as my main amp and I think it's great. However, I owned the GB NeoPak and didn't care for it. So it might make it easier to describe what sound you are looking for, or which GB heads you have been looking into. GB makes some of the best amps out there and their service can't be beat.

jzucker · #3 06-09-2010, 09:18 PM

I've had a couple Markbass LMII amps. Great amps but too muddy for what I'm looking for. The carvin actually sounds exactly like what I want it for but it's flakey. Went belly up after 10 hours use in my basement. Not sure I want to play the game of replacing it until I get one that works. Who knows how long it'll work before it craps out again.

So i'm considering the shuttle or possibly an iamp800, epifunky or something else. I do like the tone of the iamp800 and the EQ is fantastic but it's a bit noisy and the price is high compared to some of the other modern amps.

Does the GB have a colored, low-mid heavy tone ala markbass or is it a more natural tone ? The thing I liked about the carvin was that it seemed to amplify the sound of my bass or guitar without adding a bunch of muddyness. In fact, it was clear enough to use as a power amp with an axefx. Markbass couldn't be used for that due to muddyness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blmeier7

Are you looking at any specific head from GB? There are some differences in the various GB heads IMO.

I had one of the first BX500's and ended up sending it back to Carvin because it wasn't great. It wasn't horrible, just not worth keeping. I AB'ed my Carvin B1500 next to the BX500 and like the B1500 MUCH more.

I also still use the Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12 as my main amp and I think it's great. However, I owned the GB NeoPak and didn't care for it. So it might make it easier to describe what sound you are looking for, or which GB heads you have been looking into. GB makes some of the best amps out there and their service can't be beat.

blendermassacre · #4 06-09-2010, 09:29 PM

i'm dumping my genz benz shuttle 6.0 because for me, it's too clear (i'm looking for some dirt. I play rock / heavy blues / etc). I'm wanting something akin to the warmth (see muddyness) of markbass. IMO they're cleaner amps and have a bunch of tonal options. I also do like the eq of the genz benz quite a bit. If this amp got dirtier, it wouldn't be on the chopping block, and even then, I'm not certain I want to get rid of it.

esoxhntr · #5 06-10-2010, 09:07 AM

The Genz Benz amps are likely among the most "neutral" on the market.

Joeykun · #6 06-10-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blendermassacre

i'm dumping my genz benz shuttle 6.0 because for me, it's too clear (i'm looking for some dirt. I play rock / heavy blues / etc). I'm wanting something akin to the warmth (see muddyness) of markbass. IMO they're cleaner amps and have a bunch of tonal options. I also do like the eq of the genz benz quite a bit. If this amp got dirtier, it wouldn't be on the chopping block, and even then, I'm not certain I want to get rid of it.

Have you tried the Shuttle Max series??? They are the best of both worlds.
The FET Channel is clean and clear while the Tube Channel can get down right nasty!!

I would take a look at the Shuttle Max stuff if you like your Shuttle 6. but want some grit as well!

blendermassacre · #7 06-10-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeykun

Have you tried the Shuttle Max series??? They are the best of both worlds.
The FET Channel is clean and clear while the Tube Channel can get down right nasty!!

I would take a look at the Shuttle Max stuff if you like your Shuttle 6. but want some grit as well!

if someone would buy my shuttle 6...

rpsands · #8 06-10-2010, 01:29 PM

If you think the Markbass amps are muddy I don't know what you won't think is muddy

They're one of the flattest around.

KJung · #9 06-10-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

If you think the Markbass amps are muddy I don't know what you won't think is muddy

They're one of the flattest around.

I think this is a semantic issue. I believe he is looking for something that has a very present and bumped upper mid and lower treble response. Most who use the word 'transparent' are really hearing 'brightness and articulation' (i.e., strong mid and upper mid content relative to low end, and especially low mids, IMO).

In that sense, I like my MB F1/F500 a bit more than the very flat and even LMII, since those head have a touch tighter low end and a more pronounced upper midrange and lower treble. So, you can hear more of your basses articulation (the infamous 'windings on the B string' sort of thing).

The idea of MB amps being muddy makes little sense to me, but again, I can understand that in terms of 'flat versus bright'. Look at the Acme cabs, which are pretty universally described as almost ruler flat. Those cabs sound unbalanced to me to the low end, since I'm so used to (and prefer) the more typical bass cab voicing of less low end extension, a bit of a low mid bump, and in my case with my neo loaded two way cabs, a nice peak of brightness around 1K.

I describe that more typical voicing as 'transparent', because of the articulation, brightness and the 'space between the notes' so you can hear everything. However, flat it ain't.

mtripper · #10 06-10-2010, 02:18 PM

I really like my shuttlemax 12, squeaky clean to grindy rock. The eq is extremely flexible. I'm coming from swr equipment and have never used the carvin bx500. I picked it over the normal shuttle series for the two channels and the variability on the three shape buttons. I think it's worth checking out. I think the 6 is the same amp but has only one 600 watt power section instead of two so should sound the same.

jzucker · #11 06-12-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

If you think the Markbass amps are muddy I don't know what you won't think is muddy

They're one of the flattest around.

No they're not at all. Just to be clear and so as not to upset the engineers, I'm not talking about scientifically flat on a scope. I'm talking about clarity and the ability to use the MB LMII as a reference amp (by going into the effect return for example). To prove that, try plugging in a vocal mic or guitar. You will hear that there is extreme muddyness in the low mids and very muddy high frequencies and to exacerbate the situation, the treble control is centered at 10k which is cool for "slap" frequencies but is way below what a bass or guitar speaker can reproduce.

And by the way, the BX500 is very clear and passes the "reference-amp" test.

#12 06-12-2010, 10:43 AM

I have no experience with the BX500, although am also very interested in checking them out. I especially like the 2-ohm capability, the graphic EQ, and the defeatable tube pre. It's just although Carvin has great customer service, Genz Benz has to be hands down the best in the business. I'm currently experiencing problems with a second-hand NeoPak, and agedhorse has been replying to my emails faster than I can write them. You never get service like that where I'm from.

I've also written Genz before regarding the Shuttle 3.0, and got a 'gone fishin' reply from Jeff. He replied the next day, while he was on vacation, and I didn't even buy the amp yet. He was very accomodating, answering even the dumbest questions I had. He even got Fender Germany to find a bag for my Neopak for me.

Anyway, back to the topic. I've heard a few soundclips of the BX500, and in some settings, I think it sounds similar to the NeoPak, with a bit more low mid bump. I think the 'typical' Genz Benz sound is anything but muddy, but then I also didn't find any of the Markbasses I've tried to be muddy; they sound more high-middy for me. I just plain like how my Neopak is voiced, just wish it had more power.

4Mal · #13 06-12-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzucker

I'm talking about clarity and the ability to use the MB LMII as a reference amp (by going into the effect return for example). To prove that, try plugging in a vocal mic or guitar.

Reference amp ? Surely you jest... FWIW - I actually own a reference amp - it powers my studio monitors ...

If you want to amplify a mic - use a decent mic- pre and the rest of the attendant signal chain. If you want bass amp - use a bass amp ...

IMO if you want a rock tone with clarity, and one that can grind - get a GK and be done with it ...

jzucker · #14 06-12-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Reference amp ? Surely you jest... FWIW - I actually own a reference amp - it powers my studio monitors ...

If you want to amplify a mic - use a decent mic- pre and the rest of the attendant signal chain. If you want bass amp - use a bass amp ...

IMO if you want a rock tone with clarity, and one that can grind - get a GK and be done with it ...

i don't want a rock tone. As I already said, I'm looking for a tony grey / willis type of tone. Think Tom Kennedy.

I'm not looking to use it as a reference amp, I'm just using that as an example of what I'm looking for. And no, i'm not jesting. Not everyone plays the same music or likes the same tone.

chiplexic · #15 06-13-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Mal

IMO if you want a rock tone with clarity, and one that can grind - get a GK and be done with it ...

+1 That's pretty much what I was thinking even before I read 4mals post.

jzucker · #16 06-13-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiplexic

+1 That's pretty much what I was thinking even before I read 4mals post.

except I don't play in a rock band. Thanks anyway.

**B-string** · #17 06-13-2010, 03:28 PM

I use a G-K for everything from Metallica to 60's R&B, what ARE you looking for??
Forgot to mention Jazz and live theater work....

jzucker · #18 06-13-2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

I use a G-K for everything from Metallica to 60's R&B, what ARE you looking for??

As I said before, I'm playing jazz, funk and fusion and playing a lot of solos ala tony grey, willis, etc.

**B-string** · #19 06-13-2010, 03:32 PM

Sorry see additional edit. Do you like Norm Stockton's work in fusion?

jzucker · #20 06-13-2010, 03:51 PM

I like Norm's stuff but I like the clarity of Matt Garrison's stuff. That's more what I'm going for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjs9XrQqXlk

And by the way, my BX500 sounds pretty close to that with either the willis or my EB5. If the BX500 was working better it'd be the answer.