Genz Benz vs. Mesa - Fail

[chaosMK]

For quite some time I've been very interested in how Genz Benz (GBE in particular) compares to Mesa. TB reviews have been very favorable for Genz Benz and I've posted a few times trying to find answers, especially in regard to how the tube channels on these heads sound. I found out that a store near where I work carried both lines and did some testing.


Background on me: 5-string user, modern prog metal
Tone preference: Slightly gritty, cut-through, articulate in lower range
Previous ideal setup- Mesa Bass 400 / Sansamp BDDI blended in FX loop / PH 4x10

Amps tested:

Genz Benz Steamliner 900 vs Mesa/Boogie M9 Carbine

I used a high end 5-string bass and a Mesa PH 4x10. I plugged into a Genz Benz cab initially and figured I'd go with a Mesa PH instead since I have a pretty good understanding of how they respond and where they bump at.

Genz Benz Streamline 900

Nice warm sound, immediately GK-ish. I thought that since this head has a bunch of tubes in it, it would be able to get some kind of grit. With the settings on everything set more a less flat and the Gain tested in the ranges of 11:00 - 2:00 horrible tones were experienced in the B-string range. It reminded me of the sound my bass makes when the batteries run out. In regular E-ish ranges, the Gain had a more a less acceptable effect.

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice head. My tapping stuff sounded great on it. The "grit" is pretty light in nature and apparently not functional in the B range. I couldn't get a good aggressive slap sound on the B string. I started thinking something was wrong with the bass.

Mesa M9 Carbine

I noticed an M9 right next to the Genz stuff and decided to give it a shot. Before I even picked the bass back up, a dangerous sounding earthquake started rumbling (Gain set at about 12:00, Master at 9:00-ish) and I had to push a bunch of the controls back. This head was incredibly loud at miniscule settings. The more the Gain was turned up, the more awesome sounding grit was produced.

At relatively flat settings, I was able to get a tone I loved (cut the lowest lows on the graphic eq, slight bump at 150). It sounded very authoritative.

I'd need to play around with the Genz a little more to truly understand how its output settings really work. The Mesa appeared to completely blow it away in terms of power.

***

In general my curiousities have been satisfied- Genz Benz is probably not for me. I recognize its potential for most applications, just not for mine (I'd like to give it another chance with some serious Sansamp "correction"). Keep in mind, I am very fond of Mesa stuff in the first place and go for a highly aggressive sound. I decided to post this for those who have been curious about Mesa vs Genz Benz, particularly for more aggressive and lower-tuned applications.

FYI: This is the type of sound I've liked in the past (:30 sounds fairly clear)-

Left Brain - Solipsism (2010) - 02 - I. Kali II. Emanations by dr_thunda on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

[babebambi]

+1, pretty similar to my experience as well

[Matt Dean]

+1 more... when ever I've been to a GTG where I've been able to compare my Mesa M6 to GB heads, I always come away glad I have my Mesa M6. Right now, I am actually 100% GAS free regarding amplification.

Having said that, GB does have a well deserved reputation for CS and GB does reliably produce tone that many love.

[the yeti]

that m9 might kick the streamliners butt when it comes to producing tone, but let's see who wins if we wanted to see which was better for holding at arms length for extended periods.
if we wanted to.

[modulusman]

Yeah the Genz Benz weighs 25% as much as the Mesa also about $350.00 cheaper. I have owned Mesa amps/cabs in the past {walkabout, mpulse 600, powerhouse 210s} While it sounded good had issues with the mpulse and the rhinohide on the cabs was a joke. Now days for me weight is a big concern so the lighter the better.

[jeff7bass]

I don’t have a problem with liking the Mesa’s more, great amps, but I don’t quite get the “horrible tones from the GB’s B-string” thing.
This tells me that a combination and head/cab/EQ settings is likely the culprit, along with perhaps pre-conceived notions of “flat”.
The flat settings on the Mesa might be a totally different set of freq. ranges on the GB, and the way the cab responds to flat on each head may be totally different.
It’s the first time I ever heard somebody blaming a head for not producing an accurate B-string. Usually the cab is the culprit.

[Daniel Piper]

Thanks for the mini shootout mate. I think that opinions on Overdrives/grit/dirt/fuzz/distortions are even more varied than opinions as to what constitutes a great clean tone - so no surprises that you preferred one head to the other in that respect.

Like many, many of us here on TB, the streamliner has been something I have been looking into for a while - can you think of any musical situations where it's tone might be more appropriate than the m6?

Cheers

[Thundar]

Originally Posted by jeff7bass

I don’t have a problem with liking the Mesa’s more, great amps, but I don’t quite get the “horrible tones from the GB’s B-string” thing.
This tells me that a combination and head/cab/EQ settings is likely the culprit, along with perhaps pre-conceived notions of “flat”.
The flat settings on the Mesa might be a totally different set of freq. ranges on the GB, and the way the cab responds to flat on each head may be totally different.
It’s the first time I ever heard somebody blaming a head for not producing an accurate B-string. Usually the cab is the culprit.

Not necessarily... if you go back and read KJUNG's thread about his Streamliner, you will find that he noted the compression he found in the Streamliner when playing the B-string, which others have reported in some hybrid heads. I have also encountered this with other Genz heads, and it also led me to sell my Neo Pak and pick up a Carvin BX500. I have heard it with my own ears numerous times, and its something I listen for every time I try out a new bass head...theres just a flabby, muddiness to it. However I have not tried the Streamliner, but after reading jung's thread, I knew if he heard it, then I would definitely hear it and it would make me nuts.

[chaosMK]

Originally Posted by jeff7bass

Usually the cab is the culprit.

In this case, I can assure you it's not the cab. Mesa Powerhouse cabs are probably some of the best on the market for producing articulate/clear tones in the B-range. That's why I've used them for years.

As mentioned, I ran the GB with all of the tone controls very close to 12:00. The more I turned up (by "up" I mean clockwise) the Gain knob, the more the very bad sounding grit increased when playing on the B string. In other ranges, this gain level produced a very gentle OD. I'm assuming it's just the nature of the Gain on this head. It doesnt produce "bite."

Originally Posted by Daniel Piper

Like many, many of us here on TB, the streamliner has been something I have been looking into for a while - can you think of any musical situations where it's tone might be more appropriate than the m6?
Cheers

I think the Streamliner can probably offer the same type of flexibility as GK heads (to which GB are often compared), which seem to work well in almost any style. I bet you can get an array of excellent smooth jazzy tones from it and nice round rock tones too.

[lomo]

It's all a matter of taste, but your experience mirrors mine. Although I prefer the warmth of the Walkabout, the M9 is the king of power and clarity, while still sounding thick and warm. The SL900 was too flubby for me so I flipped it. BTW, if you REALLY want articulate low B, try a fEarful 15-6 with an M9 :-)))))))

[kesslari]

Originally Posted by chaosMK

In this case, I can assure you it's not the cab. Mesa Powerhouse cabs are probably some of the best on the market for producing articulate/clear tones in the B-range. That's why I've used them for years.

As mentioned, I ran the GB with all of the tone controls very close to 12:00. The more I turned up (by "up" I mean clockwise) the Gain knob, the more the very bad sounding grit increased when playing on the B string. In other ranges, this gain level produced a very gentle OD. I'm assuming it's just the nature of the Gain on this head. It doesnt produce "bite."


I think the Streamliner can probably offer the same type of flexibility as GK heads (to which GB are often compared), which seem to work well in almost any style. I bet you can get an array of excellent smooth jazzy tones from it and nice round rock tones too.

Reread - he didn't say it was the cab, he said it was possibly the cab/head pairing. If you still have it, try cutting the lows on the GB head and see if the B still bugs you.

Not saying you won't still like the Mesa more - but it might make the GB less of a "fail" in your ears.

[JimmyM]

Not heard the Streamliner, but "fail" is the last word I'd use to describe Genz Benz stuff.

[4-string]

The Streamliner wouldn't be my first pick for checking out GB. I don't doubt it is great, but quite a different flavour from the typical Genz I believe.

Anyway, I currently have gas for only one amp, and that is the Mesa M9.

[KsPiNeSh]

Don't know what was going on there, but I own both the M9 (previously M6) and Streamliner and have absolutely zero issues with compression on my drop-tuned B-strings. The tone preferences you listed are definitely in line with mine, so I'm not sure where our differences lie. One thing I will say is that I've always been unimpressed with Mesa cabs (except maybe the PH212), so perhaps that's one source of difference. Also, my Carbines haven't gotten dirty until well above 3:00 on the gain - interested to know what bass were you using.

[vin*tone]

Originally Posted by the yeti

that m9 might kick the streamliners butt when it comes to producing tone, but let's see who wins if we wanted to see which was better for holding at arms length for extended periods.
if we wanted to.

Fortunately I don't do that very often.

[jeff7bass]

Originally Posted by kesslari

Reread - he didn't say it was the cab, he said it was possibly the cab/head pairing. If you still have it, try cutting the lows on the GB head and see if the B still bugs you.

Not saying you won't still like the Mesa more - but it might make the GB less of a "fail" in your ears.

Thta's what I meant alright. Thanks for clarifying. Also, a Shuttle 9.0 might actually sound better than the Streamliner to his ears for the settings he likes, so GB vs Mesa may be a little vague.

The M9 isn't a micro head either, is it? Not that it matters, but if you compare a GK1001RbII to a GK MB Fusion and you like deep, clear, punch in the gut tone, the Fusion probably won't come out ahead.

A fairer comparison might be the GB 1200w head and the M9.

[recreate.me]

I was reading through the mesa manual, and the gain knob actually effects more then just gain. They manual says if your gain is under Noon, you get a more modern tone, where as past Noon the Carbines produce a smoother more vintage sounding tone.

Weird eh, too bad it was to hard to test in a store haha

[KsPiNeSh]

Originally Posted by recreate.me

I was reading through the mesa manual, and the gain knob actually effects more then just gain. They manual says if your gain is under Noon, you get a more modern tone, where as past Noon the Carbines produce a smoother more vintage sounding tone.

Weird eh, too bad it was to hard to test in a store haha

This has been exactly my experience. My personal preference is the gain at ~ 1:00.

[Aaron_D]

Happy to report no such compression with my shuttlemax 6 or 12 with my sadowsky MV5. Big, powerful B.

[chaosMK]

Originally Posted by KsPiNeSh

Also, my Carbines haven't gotten dirty until well above 3:00 on the gain - interested to know what bass were you using.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you what bass I was using. Next time I go I'll bring my Cirrus (which I understand well). I just grabbed the fanciest looking 5-string within reach, I think it had Barts. It was active and seemed to have a pretty hot signal. I used a range of finger style attacks from fairly gentle to a little more percussive, and some slapping.