Genz Streamliner 900 and TC RH450 Comparison

KJung · #1 02-04-2011, 07:03 AM

Hey guys!

Thought I'd start a thread on this. There are plenty direct reviews and clips of the RH450 in the TC mega thread, and the reviews of the Streamliners are now coming in in the Genz megathread.

I thought I'd focus on more of a comparison, since these two heads have IMO the same design goal... to achieve a relatively realistic 'all tube tone' in a small, lightweight format. IMO, they would both interest the same sort of player.

Overview: These are both about the same size (the TC is a little wider and more shallow, the Streamliner thinner side to side and a bit deeper). The TC is about a pound heavier. Both are top of the line quality, fit and finish... solid, high quality feeling knobs (although the TC, with the digital preamp, has more of a hi tech feel, while the Genz has the more traditional creamy analog type controls).

The Genz achieves its tube preamp tone from real tubes, while the TC achieves its preamp tone from a solid state tube emulation circuit. Both attempt to achieve the feel of power tubes using advanced limiting/compression circuitry at the power stage.

Of course, the TC is LOADED with about every bell and whistle you could think of... four bands of semi-parametric EQ, compression, storable presets, tuner, etc. The Genz takes a more 'vintage' approach, with three band tone controls (three level semi-parametric mid control). There is SO much tonal variation at the Genz gain stage that at this point, I don't miss anything in the EQ section.

Power... hard to compare at this point without driving to full performance on the gig. I've done many gigs with the RH450, and it is the loudest, fullest 450 watts I've ever heard. My impression is the Streamliner has the ooomph edge, but probably not as much as the power specs would suggest. Both are more than loud enough to drive a 4ohm 410 to virtually full performance. I would guess the Streamliner would pull ahead significantly at 8ohms.

Overall tone: Set flat, the RH450 is a bit more low mid meaty and 'thick', more polite in the upper mids, and not quite as extended in the treble range (this makes sense, since the inherent voicing of the TC is exactly that.... a touch of low mid bump, a touch of upper mid attenuation, and a 5K hard treble lo pass). The Genz is a bit deeper and wider, with a cleaner, more present upper mid response and a bit more sparkle up top. I will see how close I can get the two in clean and slightly overdriven mode.

Here are a few pictures of the 'test rig' (AE410 and Nordy PJ5). I'll post up some clips and detailed comparisons later today.

The comparison rig:

Close-up of the heads:

The 'tube window' of the Streamliner... WAY cool!

PappaK · #2 02-04-2011, 07:18 AM

Subscribed!

Mike Shevlin · #3 02-04-2011, 07:21 AM

Wow~ Can't wait for your vids on the Streamliner

mikeluch · #4 02-04-2011, 07:36 AM

subscribed

CharlieC · #5 02-04-2011, 07:43 AM

Many Class D amp designs have cooling fans, but you'd never know that just by listening.

With 3 tubes cooking inside like an EasyBake oven, is the Streamliner's fan always running?

Is the fan loud, obvious or otherwise annoying?

Thanks!

KJung · #6 02-04-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC

Many Class D amp designs have cooling fans, but you'd never know that just by listening.

With 3 tubes cooking inside like an EasyBake oven, is the Streamliner's fan always running?

Is the fan loud, obvious or otherwise annoying?

Thanks!

It is so quiet that one of the first things I did was to check that it worked by putting my ear right next to it... thought it was faulty! Zero issue. Also, the box is big enough that there is plenty of 'passive cooling' also.

adivin · #7 02-04-2011, 09:06 AM

Ken, it sounds like these two amps are more similar then different? At this point, do you see any reason to own both?

It still sounds like hype to say the SL kills the RH. I don't even know what that means actually. Are you working on a A/B video?

kesslari · #8 02-04-2011, 09:08 AM

This will be a fun read...
Ken, really appreciate your reviews and comments.

svtb15 · #9 02-04-2011, 09:10 AM

Thats the first thing i did when i got my shuttle9. I thought the fan was faulty.. It wasnt. The fan is just very quiet.. Works great when recording a miced amp... no whirring noises on a sensitive neuman mic.. Those mics can pick up ant flatulence !

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

It is so quiet that one of the first things I did was to check that it worked by putting my ear right next to it... thought it was faulty! Zero issue. Also, the box is big enough that there is plenty of 'passive cooling' also.

svtb15 · #10 02-04-2011, 09:14 AM

Preamp tubes dont really get all that hot..
I can take them out after gigging with bare fingers.. they'll be just slightly warm. Its the power amp tubes that will bite you. they get hot
And he shuttle seems to stay very cool even when pumping with the yellow limit light flashing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieC

Many Class D amp designs have cooling fans, but you'd never know that just by listening.

With 3 tubes cooking inside like an EasyBake oven, is the Streamliner's fan always running?

Is the fan loud, obvious or otherwise annoying?

Thanks!

KJung · #11 02-04-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adivin

Ken, it sounds like these two amps are more similar then different? At this point, do you see any reason to own both?

It still sounds like hype to say the SL kills the RH. I don't even know what that means actually. Are you working on a A/B video?

I'm uploading a streamliner clip with my PBass now. Getting ready to record a comparison clip. So, far, two very nice flavors of good to my ear. They aren't the same, but I can get each within spitting distance of each other with relatively clean tones. The nature of the overdrive when you really start to grind is quite different, but I'll leave that comparison to others, since that is so far away from my knowledge and comfort zone.

I'll spend more time. The Streamliner is definitely capable of more low end when pushed hard, but I typically roll a bit of low end off the RH450, so a bit of a moot point. I would think if you are cranking an 810 hard, the Streamliner 900 would pull away in absolute volume. With a high SPL 410 at 4ohms, probably not life changing.

One of the things I notice that is different is that the front end of the Streamliner, when really pushed, really does compress like a 'real' tube amp... not particularly a good thing for a 5 string bass, where the B can clamp a bit if you are grinding (of course, most who grind play 4 strings anyway, so duh!). The RH450 stays more open and even when you dial in the grind...which again is a bit 'not like a tube amp' in a way. Just depends on the flavor you want.

Look for a basic P Bass 'clean' Streamliner clip in about 20 minutes (I'll post a link), and a comparison of the 'clean but warm' tones of the RH450 and Streamliner in about an hour.

I like both amps very much, and both are VERY 'P friendly'!

KJung · #12 02-04-2011, 09:28 AM

Here is the first clip... just the Streamliner, set rather clean and a bit bright. Hopefully, you can hear that very 'tubey' clean top end I was talking about in the other thread.... very nice, maybe a bit much solo, but I'm sure it will great in a mix!

Next clip with emphasize a more low mid, darker, organic tone and compare to the RH450.

Sorry for the scatchy voice... I'm on the verge of the crud setting in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmiTKaTE0uU

Vic · #13 02-04-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svtb15

Preamp tubes dont really get all that hot..
I can take them out after gigging with bare fingers.. they'll be just slightly warm. Its the power amp tubes that will bite you. they get hot
And he shuttle seems to stay very cool even when pumping with the yellow limit light flashing...

I think this depends GREATLY on the amp design. Not all preamp designs containing one or more tubes run the tube(s) at the most typically recommended 150 or so volts. Depends on what the tonal design goals are for the tube(s).

ubercore · #14 02-04-2011, 09:44 AM

Thanks for the video Ken! Sounds pretty killer with your P!

KJung · #15 02-04-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubercore

Thanks for the video Ken! Sounds pretty killer with your P!

Thanks! I'm digging it. Next clip will be a little fatter, a little darker, and includes the RH450. Uploading now.

mothra2 · #16 02-04-2011, 09:48 AM

So ... where's the jazz clip???

KJung · #17 02-04-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mothra2

So ... where's the jazz clip???

Well, I have the A-C LG5 all hooked up, and I am dead in the water. The wonderful nature of real tubes

. I'm sure it is just a preamp tube that was bounced around a bit in shipping. Had the same thing happen with a Mesa hybrid.

I guess now I get to experience that famous Genz Benz service!

Again, I'm 95% sure it is just a tube failure, since the amp comes on (I can hear that it is idling) but no sound from the instrument and no increased gain or hiss when cranking the tone controls or tube gain.

Back with more when I'm up and running.

The RH450/Streamliner clip will be active in about 20 minutes or so.

svtb15 · #18 02-04-2011, 10:14 AM

Im not sure what the Alembic pre is. maybe 300 volts. and my old SVT.. They both must be up there in voltage.. Those pre tubes can be pulled with no discomfort to the fingers.
The shuttle tube is cool to the touch but i dont think it is run at 300 volts. dont know..
Dont want to go OT but i was just commenting on previous post using my experience with preamp tubes over the years.
Do they get warm.. yes.. but not blister burning red hot and some like to believe.
Power tubes on the other hand is another story from my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic

I think this depends GREATLY on the amp design. Not all preamp designs containing one or more tubes run the tube(s) at the most typically recommended 150 or so volts. Depends on what the tonal design goals are for the tube(s).

svtb15 · #19 02-04-2011, 10:16 AM

Can you pop the top off to be certain the tubes are seated properly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Well, I have the A-C LG5 all hooked up, and I am dead in the water. The wonderful nature of real tubes

. I'm sure it is just a preamp tube that was bounced around a bit in shipping. Had the same thing happen with a Mesa hybrid.

I guess now I get to experience that famous Genz Benz service!

Again, I'm 95% sure it is just a tube failure, since I the amp comes on (I can hear that it is idling) but no sound from the instrument and no increased gain or hiss when cranking the tone controls or tube gain.

Back with more when I'm up and running.

The RH450/Streamliner clip will be active in about 20 minutes or so.

mothra2 · #20 02-04-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Well, I have the A-C LG5 all hooked up, and I am dead in the water. The wonderful nature of real tubes

. I'm sure it is just a preamp tube that was bounced around a bit in shipping. Had the same thing happen with a Mesa hybrid.

I guess now I get to experience that famous Genz Benz service!

Again, I'm 95% sure it is just a tube failure, since I the amp comes on (I can hear that it is idling) but no sound from the instrument and no increased gain or hiss when cranking the tone controls or tube gain.

Back with more when I'm up and running.

The RH450/Streamliner clip will be active in about 20 minutes or so.

Probably just user error.
Did you remember to 'pluck' the string?