Which to get - Eminence Gamma vs Delta vs Legend 15s

[ZiggyDude]

I am struggling with what speakers to get and was wonderin gif folks have tried any of these three. All are Eminence – more info on either the Eminence site or US Speaker.
- Gamma-15A
- Delta-15A
- Legend CB15-A

I went to US Speaker and looked over the Eminence line. I am trying to do this on a budget to a point so the under $100 (their price) stuff was the first I looked at was the Gamma-15A and the Delta-15A. Both are rated at 300 watts RMS – the response curves are mostly above 97 DB (looking at the pic) though the Delta has a more ragged curve. On the graph the Gamma seems a bit more efficient and stronger in the deep lows – but that is just a graph.

The next level at up $119 I saw the Legend CB15-A. I am not sure what that would get me. Same power rating it seems.

These would be going into a large well ported cab. High power handling is one concern. Tone is another, some speakers are known more for a middy “vintage feel” like the JBL D-140 while others have more the clear sound.

Much thanks,

[will33]

You need to do more homework before buying anything. Cab size, port tuning, displacement limits, etc. "large and well ported" doesn't say much. Measure your cab and model each speaker first.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by ZiggyDude

the response curves are mostly above 97 DB (looking at the pic) though the Delta has a more ragged curve. On the graph the Gamma seems a bit more efficient and stronger in the deep lows – but that is just a graph. ,

Those graphs are in a standard test baffle, and say nothing as to how the driver will work below 200hz, where the cabinet is as much responsible for the result as the driver is. The only way to know how a driver will work, especially where the all important displacement limited power is concerned, is via software modeling. Power ratings alone are meaningless.

[craig.p]

Measure the inside dimensions of your cab, measure the port lengths and diameters (or slot vent length, width, and height), tell us what else is inside the cab (bracing, midranges, tweeters, anything else that takes up space), and we can help you. Also (sort of off topic) take the opportunity to get the damping material right while you're in there, if it's not already.

[ZiggyDude]

OK - you got me motivated! Actually - this proved to be totally cool. Now I know what to tell my son when the day he comes and says "Why do I need to learn math?"

I spent some time doing the measuring and calculations and got some numbers. These are rough but probably really close as I did the old double check

The volume for the area the 2 15" speakers live in is 10571.5 cubic inches. There is NO sound dampening stuff and only a small support plank between the two speakers - thus they both "Hear" each other.

The volume of the port area is about 1739 cubic inches. The vent between the speaker are and the port is 2.125". It grows to 6.375 wide at the end - though there is an obstruction we will not deal with now.

There are no tweeters and dampening.

The internals of the cab overall are 38.75x22.5x12.125

The port mouth is 6.375x21.25

So you start with 2.125 and end with 6.375 - though it gets weird as a 7/8" support blocks part of it. For now I hope we can ignore that.

By the way - if you want ot see pics - here is the link - I just did not want to confuse another thread.
Sunn 215B Restoration

[walterw]

if the tuning is right, the kappa 15A is a kick-ass bass guitar speaker. i use 2 LDS single 15s made for them and they just crush, filling the room up like a blob-monster in a steve mqueen movie.

[ZiggyDude]

Hi walterw

Thanks for the reply. I would be happy to try that one too - except the "Kappa" word has me scared as of late. Perhaps for no good reason.

I am sure that it is great - but I put Kappa 15LFA into my 406 Wide and it failed miserably. Later the Eminence engineer calculated that the 406 big breathig cab brought the mighty 500 watt power handling down to less than 200.

One guy on the Carvin site once said "Even the best speaker in the best - but wrong cabinet - will sound like poo" - someone should make a statue of him.

[craig.p]

I'm going to wait until after BFM or Greenboy or Will or RP hop in before I say anything, because I've never known how to handle that sort of port in WinISD. Use the precise port volume? Multiply the port volume by some fraction of 1 to account for the small entryway at the beginning of the flare? Where's the dividing line between air "owned" by the port and air "owned" by the outside of the cab? Does the port own any of it at all (in other words, do you model it as just a simple slot vent?) I don't know. Probably in a FAQ somewhere but I'm staring down deadlines this morning...

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by craig.p

I've never known how to handle that sort of port in WinISD.

You can't. The only way to determine the cab tuning is by measuring the impedance. With about 2.5 cu ft net per driver just about any fifteen will work, and for the sake of estimating probable response I'd use 45Hz as the box tuning figure. From there it's a matter of modeling for the best result with the amp being used.

[ZiggyDude]

My thanks to all that are helping with this.

So - science is not the answer I guess. We may be down to what people have actually heard in a speaker then.

I read some reviews and I got the impression that most folks like the Legend CB15-A
and one mentioned the Gamma-15A got "Soft" at higher volumes. Has anyone actually tried one of the speakers I mentioned?

- Gamma-15A
- Delta-15A
- Legend CB15-A

[steamthief]

Orange OBC115 cabs are loaded from the factory with either the Gamma or Delta. Mine has a Delta and sounds really good. This cab is considered one of the best fifteens on the market, and it even has the Tom Bowlus seal of approval.

[kosmicwizard]

Since your kappa didn't work in the 406, why don't you see if it works in the 215B? Then get another driver for the 406. Also, have a look at the 3015LF driver. Cheers.

[lelandcrooks]

Gamma's like big boxes. I have a pair in an older model dual ot15 and they peform very well. It's in the ballpark of your cab size. It's also a horn, so ymmv.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by steamthief

Orange OBC115 cabs are loaded from the factory with either the Gamma or Delta. Mine has a Delta and sounds really good. This cab is considered one of the best fifteens on the market, and it even has the Tom Bowlus seal of approval.

If you like your OBC 115 now, pull the speaker out, insulate the cab (nothing in it now) and then put a kappalite 3015 in it.
You will be AMAZED!!! Sounds much better and weighs 9 pounds less.

[ZiggyDude]

Interesting.

I did what was obvious but was simply resisting the work of pulling speakers in and out.

After the Kappa LFAs had failed I loaded the 406 with Carvin neo 15s (600 watt) and it worked really great. I could get speaker fart with the mighty 370 turned up to 4, and that is with the bass controls really boosted and an active bass (Bongo) with its tone controls really boosted.

So, I tried the neos in the Sunn cab. There was some loss of tone and projection - but I was surprised to also lose power handling! In general - I lost a number on the volume dial. That is a lot of volume.

I am starting to think that I need a really "Tight" speaker since the cab breathes so well. The results with the Carvin (Celestion made) were acceptable and at $99 each not a bad deal. $222 shipped. Though not quite what I was hoping for.

I could argue the point to myself that with two more Carvins I have back up speakers in case one should ever fail. It also makes comparing cabs very easy.

But part of me was also wanting to give Eminence a shot. Their customer service was really helpful and I hate to leave them dry. Silly of me I guess.

Still keeping the mind open.

[will33]

Just a little "quick-n-dirty" goofing around with WinISD. The Delta and the Gamma have relatively low displacement limits, ie: fart out early. The LegendCB15 and the Delta15LF could both take a good pounding but both also trade topend response for excursion and depth. The Delta 15LF will also have a pretty large midbass hump in 5-5.5 cu.ft. like that cab. The Legend handles it a bit better (bass but not annoying "boom", the bad kind of boom). OK if you like a "darker" sound. May have to find a middle ground if you want a little "old school treble" or "brightness" on axis. Haven't modeled any of the neo's but alas, have to go back to work.

[will33]

I'm getting confused as to what the port is. The thread Sunn 215B Restoration that you linked to....in the first picture in post #1, it looks like the top panel of the port stops short of the back wall. That makes a port effectively. It also looks like what they call "slot loading" in a lot of 70's/early80's cabs. It flares out like a mini horn mouth but it's not big enough/long enough to really "hornload" any lows. Getting beyond my knowledge here. My speaker observations are pretty much ignoring that and assuming it to be cutout/blocked off and turn into a "regular" port.

But...in the pic further down with the trashbag of old insulation, it looks as if the opening in the back isn't there anymore. Like that whole apparatus was sealed off and you essentially have a sealed 215 with a bunch of extra wood hanging off the side for no reason. Am I missing something? There's even a backwall brace behind the bottom speaker that runs to what what seems like the sealed off back of the used to be port and the only little slot that opens up into the "slot port" would be lucky to catch a little vibration off the speaker surround.

So what am I missing here?

[steamthief]

Originally Posted by hdracer

If you like your OBC 115 now, pull the speaker out, insulate the cab (nothing in it now) and then put a kappalite 3015 in it.
You will be AMAZED!!! Sounds much better and weighs 9 pounds less.

It just so happens I have a 3015 on the way. Can you elaborate on your insulation process?

[runmikeyrun]

I've used Delta 15s in an old Randall sealed cab and they perform great. Good sensitivity and low end.

For insulation i just go to home depot and get regular old fiberglass. Yeah it's itchy to install (use gloves and don't touch your arms) but then again i use sealed cabs- if you have a port all that air movement will probably blow fibers out- not good to breathe. So maybe check for something that's not going to hurt your lungs, or egg crate foam. Last time i checked you could get egg crate foam at walmart... they sold it as a bed topper. A king size bed topper should insulate your cab quite well.

[ZiggyDude]

The port is unchanged. Perhaps just a result of photograph makes the cab look like it was sealed.