Getting a Bugera this week

[Pills Are Yummy]

Originally Posted by MuthaFunk

Wow. I had to buy one. I have wayyyy too many amps already but curiosity has the best of me. I'll put it up on the test bench and see what it will really put out on a 15 Amp circuit when I get it.

I'm thinking it will sound great with my Eden WTDI inserted into the effects return. I'll see how much of a beating my Berg AE410 can take. Orrr, I'll use it to prop open my garage door when I'm painting and need extra venting.

Yes....the trend has begun

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

80%? Nowadays, most electricians will use 20 amp circuits for an entire house. There's also lots of them in older houses, you just need to know where to look for them (kitchen, garage, living room, laundry room, etc.) and I'd say about 80% of normal gigs will have 20 amp circuits installed for the use of appliances or any other commercial hardware...think about bars, clubs, theaters,warehouses, stadiums.

Yes, I believe it isn't the company's fault. The buyer should know what he's getting into before going out and buying something...you wouldn't buy an all tube amp and not expect to change/replace tubes, would you?

I can't even imagine what happens if you plug this one into any of the crappy power outlets that are present in crappy bars all across USA....

[Downunderwonder]

TBH it beggars belief that an amp can be sold which turns up its toes when powered up from a 15A outlet. Shenanigans.

[Pills Are Yummy]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

TBH it beggars belief that an amp can be sold which turns up its toes when powered up from a 15A outlet. Shenanigans.

Get your brooms!!!

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

80%? Nowadays, most electricians will use 20 amp circuits for an entire house. There's also lots of them in older houses, you just need to know where to look for them (kitchen, garage, living room, laundry room, etc.) and I'd say about 80% of normal gigs will have 20 amp circuits installed for the use of appliances or any other commercial hardware...think about bars, clubs, theaters,warehouses, stadiums.

Yes, I believe it isn't the company's fault. The buyer should know what he's getting into before going out and buying something...you wouldn't buy an all tube amp and not expect to change/replace tubes, would you?

I've never seen an entire house wired with 20A circuits and I was an electrician for about 15 years doing everything from residential and commercial construction to movie sets. Most houses have 15A circuits for all the normal wall outlets. By code, you can't put a 15A outlet onto 12ga wire (20A circuit). 20A circuits are reserved for special needs like appliances and such. They are easy to spot because the neutral slot has one additional horizontal slot. If it doesn't look like the outlet below, then it's a 15A outlet.

Pulling more than 15A from one of these is not a good thing. To make matters worse, nowadays no one bothers to wrap the wires around the side screws. 14ga, stuck in the little holes in back is all you get. Commercial buildings tend to have more 20A circuits, but not necessarily so in the older buildings that tend to be your average bar. Keep in mind that your typical night club has had a dozen (usually unskilled) hands in that breaker box and it's most likely overloaded too begin with. The chances that your outlet on stage is a dedicated 20A with nothing else on it is somewhere between slim and zero. Most likely that circuit your amp is plugged into is also running a coffee pot, some fluorescent lights and a crock filled filled with something the club is trying to pass off as nacho cheese sauce.

And no, I wouldn't buy a tube amp and not expect to replace the tubes, but if I had to change them every 6 months because they were burning out, I certainly wouldn't consider that to be my fault for buying the amp either.

[Pills Are Yummy]

Originally Posted by R Baer

I've never seen an entire house wired with 20A circuits and I was an electrician for about 15 years doing everything from residential and commercial construction to movie sets. Most houses have 15A circuits for all the normal wall outlets. By code, you can't put a 15A outlet onto 12ga wire (20A circuit). 20A circuits are reserved for special needs like appliances and such. They are easy to spot because the neutral slot has one additional horizontal slot. If it doesn't have this, it's a 15A outlet. Pulling more than 15A from one of these is not a good thing. To make matters worse, nowadays no one bothers to wrap the wires around the side screws. 14ga, stuck in the little holes in back is all you get. Commercial buildings tend to have more 20A circuits, but not necessarily so in the older buildings that tend to be your average bar. Keep in mind that your typical night club has had a dozen (usually unskilled) hands in that breaker box and it's most likely overloaded too begin with. The chances that your outlet on stage is a dedicated 20A with nothing else on it is somewhere between slim and zero. Most likely that circuit your amp is plugged into is also running a coffee pot, some fluorescent lights and a crock filled filled with something the club is trying to pass off as nacho cheese sauce.

And no, I wouldn't buy a tube amp and not expect to replace the tubes, but if I had to change them every 6 months because they were burning out, I certainly wouldn't consider that to be my fault for buying the amp either.

I contacted an electrician, he wires every house with 20 amp circuits...maybe rules have changed, or maybe the code is different in my state, I don't know. The real question here is how can these 20amp circuits with 15 amp style outlets exist ?

As for the tube amp subject, hypothetically, if the manufacturer TOLD you specifically to replace them every 6 months, would you still not expect to do it?

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

I contacted an electrician, he wires every house with 20 amp circuits...maybe rules have changed, or maybe the code is different in my state, I don't know. The real question here is how can these 20amp circuits with 15 amp style outlets exist ?

As for the tube amp subject, hypothetically, if the manufacturer TOLD you specifically to replace them every 6 months, would you still not expect to do it?

It's the old weakest link theory. If your outlet is rated for 15A and you do put it on a 20A circuit, then the max you can draw through that outlet is 15A. No way around that, sorry. In fact, you can no longer stick 12ga wire into the back of a modern 15A outlet. The holes are made too small for 12ga wire for just that reason.

Honestly, I'm just trying to educate a bit about building wiring and am not knocking the amp at all. I haven't read the manual, but if they are telling you that you need 18 amps to run this thing, then that is something to be aware of. If the amp works fine and your'e digging it, then that's a wonderful thing.

[Pills Are Yummy]

Originally Posted by R Baer

It's the old weakest link theory. If your outlet is rated for 15A and you put it on a 20A circuit, then the max you can draw through that outlet is 15A. No way around that, sorry.

Honestly, I'm just trying to educate a bit about building wiring and am not knocking the amp at all. I haven't read the manual, but if they are telling you that you need 18 amps to run this thing, then that is something to be aware of.

Thank you. What do you suggest one should do when using this amp?

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

Thank you. What do you suggest one should do when using this amp?

My guess, and I don't know the amp, is that they are jacking up the peak ratings for marketing purposes and if you were to actually put an ammeter on the amp under normal use, it's probably operating within reasonable limits. If it is actually a common complaint that the amps are tripping breakers on a regular basis, then IMO, they have exceeded reasonable design standards. Best thing to do is to try and make sure that you remove as many others loads from the circuit you are plugged into as possible before using the amp. That crock pot full of cheese sauce would be a good place to start.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by Pills Are Yummy

Thank you. What do you suggest one should do when using this amp?

I used to do tech support for small festivals and concerts in Ottawa. Not pointing a finger at you personally, but the amount of electrical mis-information and ignorance demonstrated on this thread so far, is frightening.

This isn't going to answer your question to your satisfaction, but if it's really as powerful as stated, then you should use this amp the way touring crews have been using high-output power amps for decades.

In those circles, the obvious assumption is that if one instrument is going to be that loud, then the whole band will be.

That means a big PA, and separate power distribution for lights and audio, taken straight off a breaker panel in a locked electrical cage or room. It works like this:
- power requirements are laid out in the rider
- the promoter checks with the venue to see if the requirements are met, and terminated with the requested connectors
- In small to medium-sized venues, that generally means a unionized electrician running temporary distribution before the gig, and taking it out after.

Coming back to reality for a minute, if you have a couple of hundred extra bucks and want to fool around with this thing for fun, then go for it.

Even if all it does is make some impressively loud noises before it plunges the room into darkness, you'll have given your buddies a few grins.

But be aware that big power amps (even name-brand ones) tend to be a bit temperamental about running off under-rated wiring. Unless all your gigs are in laundry rooms or kitchens, and the lady of the house doesn't mind you unplugging major appliances to get at the outlets, then you will run into occasional power problems. Especially in clubs.

No knowledgeable pro would rely on this thing for gigs, unless they had a normal 500-1,000 watt amp in their rack as backup.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by tmdazed

I have played through your amps smaller brother (BVP5500) rehearsals and gigs, for the last 4 years and could not be happier with it , great versatility of tone and rock solid reliability.

Same here, I have the BVP5500 for over two years now, no problems at all, great sound and enough power.

Yesterday I played on a jam session, there was also a (old) peavey setup with a 410 + 115. I only had my 210 with coax mid/high driver with me and the BVP5500 but it managed to hold up pretty well against that "tower" . I got complements from some other bassplayer who played through the big rig, saying the mids from my setup came through much better... And, I had no PA support, there we like +100 people in that venue(bar+stage).

[Will Kelly]

The price has actually gone down to 208.00 now with free shipping on a 50 lb item.

GC and MF are still selling these at $550+ and are still taking orders, so it doesn't appear they have been discontinued.

I don't need one, nor really want one, but this is a screaming deal should the amp work.

[bigchiefbc]

I seriously doubt that this thing is really going to trip most breakers until you have it pumping at absolute max.

My cover band's PA rack is running 3 power amps:

QSC RMX1450 in bridge mono for mains (1400 watts)
Behringer EP1500 in bridge mono for subs (1400 watts claimed)
QSC GX3 in stereo for monitors (300 watts per channel)

That's 3100 watts and we've never tripped a breaker yet, and we've played in some ratty-ass f*&%ing clubs.

[seang15]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Yeah, I got my quiche and the patrons got Waltz For Debby. And since I figured it out, we got asked back for several years in a row. I kind of hate blowing my cover as a sound tech though, makes it hard to relax as a punter at live shows around here.

800 watts to play Waltz for Debby?? Thats a lot of Debby! Like twenty times more juice than LaFaro ever had.

[Bean639]

Electrician here.... again. It is VERY rare for an entire house to be wired to 20A circuits. Ive actually never seen it. Why? It costs a lot of extra money and contractors are in it to make money. (Duh) Again though.... It really doesn't matter anyway. My band has a total of 4100 watts running on a 20A breaker. Thats 35A. How is this possible?? None of the equipment ACTUALLY draws anywhere near the power its rated for. Think about how many 15A circuits your ENTIRE band has played on over the years. Remember, each outlet is on the same circuit when in the same room. (Almost always)

[Johnny Crab]

< Looks at Amazon, looks at bank balance, imagines showing up at a "must bring your own backline" gig with 2 Nukes and a stack on each side >. I have 2 QSC 2402's here that push a lot but they don't say "Nuke" on the front of them.

Would not get "I can't hear you" from anyone....
Long ago in a far away land I ran an SVT with an 8x10 on each side of the stage AND an Acoustic 370 with a 301(18") next to the 8x10 on my side and a CV baby earthquake on the other side next to the other 8x10. NEVER had anyone say they couldn't hear me.

About the 20A circuit thing:
It seems that at or near BOTH channels of this amp putting out 100% power they will draw slightly less than 18A. When the Nuke gets here, I can set it up with a rig outside with a load of cabinets and pump bass track thru it while I amp clamp the feeder and let you know. I believe Bugera made this statement because some folks may actually play that loud AND if the circuit(15A or 20A) is loaded with other stuff, the VOLTAGE to the Burgera may drop below what they designed it on. THAT will make the Bugera draw more CURRENT to keep the watts out constant and could cause internal components to overheat and fail. We run red LED display true RMS voltmeters(visible by each user) on every feed for this very reason now. I told all my bandmates to power down their gear and let me know if voltage ever goes above 123 VAC or below 110 VAC during soundchecks or during a show. If you ever low voltage your gear, prepare for something to "let the smoke out" and quit working.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by seang15

800 watts to play Waltz for Debby?? Thats a lot of Debby! Like twenty times more juice than LaFaro ever had.

LaFaro and Gomez never had to compete with a toaster oven though.

[seamonkey]

Make sure you follow Bugera's rules on registering their amps to get their 3 year warranty. Then put it through it's paces. Let's see what it can do. Other bench reviews have

Amazon has done a few sales lately that have been ridiculous savings. And then afterwards, the prices jump back up. This is probably just another one of the deals. Other places are still selling these at 3x the Amazon price.

Myself, this amp is too big, and heavy for anything I'd want. I can see how some players would drool over this deal after being fed all the hype even by some pseudo boutique like amp makers - class-ab, toroidal transformer, ... I bet it blast out bass. Still Bugera really needs to enter the micro bass amp market if they want to stay in the game. The micro amps blast out the bass just as well and actually use the A's they draw from the socket to send power to the speakers and not waste it on heat. Maybe we'll see some bugera micros at Winter NAMM.

[christw]

I'm only drooling over the idea of an Ampeg-clone 4 tube preamp with free more than enough power section for $200.

That said, I'll wait until they blow out the BVV3000's. I want to check out the build quality and wouldn't mind having a 'Peg or 'Peg clone to blast the preamp for some nasty OD.

[s_mcsleazy]

i dont want to be "that guy" but im going to be "that guy"

how long till it goes bad? 6 months is my bet.