Getting some serious lows for Sludge/Doom

e_mann · #1 01-02-2013, 02:05 PM

I know this has been asked in various ways before, but it's hard to find consolidated info on this. I'm running Sunns into an ampeg 8x10 and I'm noticing that I'm disappearing under some really downtuned guitars.

Anyone have any thoughts about adding some serious low end to my rig? I'm playing at GDGC (drop G), so I need something LOW.

I'd love to get an old acoustic 408, but those seem to be really rare, and Monolith seems to have dropped off the grid, so no replica available. Heard good things about Aguilar 4x12s, as well as some stuff with 2x15s. Don't mind keeping the 8x10 and running two cabs. Anyone got some thoughts?

wcriley · #2 01-02-2013, 02:10 PM

Bi-amp into a good PA subwoofer?

joelb79 · #3 01-02-2013, 02:17 PM

Adding lots of drive tends to kill off and compress the lows. Have you tried dialing back the drive or using the blend on the sansamp for more clean tone?

Edit: Sealed 810's fall off sharply below 70hz. The biamp option just seems like so much gear for neglegable results but YMMV. I'd go fearful 1515/66 if I were you though. Lighter, louder, deeper.

2x15's are

arai · #4 01-02-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wcriley

Bi-amp into a good PA subwoofer?

This.
Is the 8x10 sealed?

e_mann · #5 01-02-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arai

This.
Is the 8x10 sealed?

It is. It's the Ampeg SVT810E.

e_mann · #6 01-02-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelb79

Adding lots of drive tends to kill off and compress the lows. Have you tried dialing back the drive or using the blend on the sansamp for more clean tone?

2x15's are

I probably should lay off the drive, but we're so damn loud, that the drive helps me boost volume. I think I just need a new amp with more headroom. Heard good things about the 1000 watt orange terror...

arai · #7 01-02-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_mann

It is. It's the Ampeg SVT810E.

Yeh, that cab does not really do low lows. Swap the cab with something that does like Mesa or get bi amp and ad a sub

father of fires · #8 01-02-2013, 02:56 PM

I love my 8x10 for ease of use but for ultra lows a nice ported 6x10 or some of the new super 15's would do you wonders.

Personally, I hate too many lows. Maybe you could try some eqs to boost the low mids and cut the sub lows to tighten up your lowend.

Full disclosure: I play in a stoner/metal band where I don't need as many lows. When I play doomy stuff I prefer more lows but nothing an 8x10 can't produce. Maybe you could work with your band to find a better mix with the gear you have.

chillerthanmost · #9 01-02-2013, 02:58 PM

I'm kinda going through the same thing with my 8x10 getting lost in the mix using either of my amps cranked (60w Sunn and 140w Univox). I've realized 8x10 are pretty low efficient. Even my EVM12L loaded 2x12 I use for guitar is around 30% louder on bass with the same amps. I used to have an Acoustic 408 and it was thunderous. Lows would travel for days and volume was no problem. Only reason I got rid of it was because it couldn't keep up with faster riffs. Great or slower, doom, sludgy stuff though. My band is more loud thrashy stuff with a random slow and heavy part here and there.

Not sure which Sunn amp you have but something vented or ported will definitely boost your low end a bit, filling up the area with more volume. There's always the more common Acoustic 406, which you can replace the stock speakers with some EV's or Eminence for loud, deep, cleans. As well as a Peavey 215D with black widows. Those are popular among the stoner/doom crowd. Then of course you can always go with a more modern design 2x15 which are most likely loaded with nice efficient Eminence drivers. I love the tone from 8x10's (mine's a vintage flatback with CTS drivers), just wish they were louder for my lower watt tube amps. I also recently played through two Avatar 2x12 bass cabs stacked and they sounded great with the tweeters off. Those go for relatively cheap and I've always felt 12's cut through real nice.

Good luck.

e_mann · #10 01-02-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arai

Yeh, that cab does not really do low lows. Swap the cab with something that does like Mesa or get bi amp and ad a sub

Would you recommend a Mesa 8x10 or a 2x15?

eyeballkid · #11 01-02-2013, 03:00 PM

what kind of Sunn are you using? what's your eq like? don't forget to keep your MIDS! alot of guys think they want "lows" and only pump out the bass freq's and cut the mids cos they think it sounds "heavy" but then complain that they disappear and think they need a bigger cab. At that tuning alot of what you actually hear isn't the fundamental of the note but the harmonics in the mid range.

btw.. go join the Stoner doom thread for questions about all things heavy... good guys in there!

father of fires · #12 01-02-2013, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_mann

Would you recommend a Mesa 8x10 or a 2x15?

I know you didn't ask me but I'll say that I had a Mesa 2x15 and it was awesome but if I wanted extreme power handling and awesome lows my gut is telling me the Mesa 8x10 would be better in the end.

arai · #13 01-02-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by father of fires

I know you didn't ask me but I'll say that I had a Mesa 2x15 and it was awesome but if I wanted extreme power handling and awesome lows my gut is telling me the Mesa 8x10 would be better in the end.

Agreed. Both are great but the 8x10 will move more air

e_mann · #14 01-02-2013, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

what kind of Sunn are you using? what's your eq like? don't forget to keep your MIDS! alot of guys think they want "lows" and only pump out the bass freq's and cut the mids cos they think it sounds "heavy" but then complain that they disappear and think they need a bigger cab. At that tuning alot of what you actually hear isn't the fundamental of the note but the harmonics in the mid range.

I'm using 2 sunn betas into an 8x10 in stereo-- one into the upper 4x10 that's really dirty (a lot of treble and mids) one in the bottom 4x10 that's cleaner (rolled back on treble) Hear you on mids, I definitely want a full range, I just need to round it out.

e_mann · #15 01-02-2013, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillerthanmost

My band is more loud thrashy stuff with a random slow and heavy part here and there.

I also recently played through two Avatar 2x12 bass cabs stacked and they sounded great with the tweeters off. Those go for relatively cheap and I've always felt 12's cut through real nice.

Same boat here, actually. I need to make sure I round out the bottom end without losing punch. We've got faster sections in our songs. I'm really intrigued by 12s for this. Awesome info about avatar--Aguilar makes great 12s, but they're so expensive. Avatar looks way more affordable.

**CL400Peavey** · #16 01-02-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e_mann

Same boat here, actually. I need to make sure I round out the bottom end without losing punch. We've got faster sections in our songs. I'm really intrigued by 12s for this. Awesome info about avatar--Aguilar makes great 12s, but they're so expensive. Avatar looks way more affordable.

Its not about driver size... There are only a handful of cabs that may do what you want, and they aint budget cabs. To do what you really want, you need to move to using a PA with subs. The lower you go the more power you need, so your little amps are running out of head room with all the sub lows you are trying to push.

Downunderwonder · #17 01-02-2013, 03:24 PM

Oh dear. The guitars are stomping on your 80hz to 200hz and own all above too. They don't appreciate bass. If they were appreciative of bass you should be able to stop playing and the arse should drop out of the mix and they will turn to you to see what the problem is.

Not likely.

It is a waste of effort to drown out their 80 to 200 and they probably won't like it if you do.

If you invest in cabs to do massive massive sub 80hz you will add only rumbling to the mix, no bass tone. Maybe that will make you happy but I doubt it.

Have an EQ meeting with all the rigs side by side and get someone else to twiddle. It's not like you don't have enough rig already.

Downunderwonder · #18 01-02-2013, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeballkid

what kind of Sunn are you using? what's your eq like? don't forget to keep your MIDS! alot of guys think they want "lows" and only pump out the bass freq's and cut the mids cos they think it sounds "heavy" but then complain that they disappear and think they need a bigger cab. At that tuning alot of what you actually hear isn't the fundamental of the note but the harmonics in the mid range.

btw.. go join the Stoner doom thread for questions about all things heavy... good guys in there!

this too.

e_mann · #19 01-02-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelb79

Edit: Sealed 810's fall off sharply below 70hz. The biamp option just seems like so much gear for neglegable results but YMMV. I'd go fearful 1515/66 if I were you though. Lighter, louder, deeper.

Just discovered the 1515/66. It looks like an absolute monster, and I've heard it's just stupid loud, which is what I want. Too bad it's also crazy expensive. Is it worth saving for?

canadian*eh · #20 01-02-2013, 03:48 PM

Well I went from a megoliath 810 to a fEARful 1515/66/1 and yeah it is stupid crazy and low.....side by side with my ex 810 and it was not even a competition..... And that SWR 810 is no slouch when it comes to 810,s!! I highly recommend the 66 if you want to go loud and drop tune without ever having to worry about over driving on the lows!!!