Gig Worthy Combos: Yea or Nay?

[seanm]

Originally Posted by Rooster009

I feel sorry for the sound guy at some of these gigs y'all are talking about. When the stage overrides the front of house things can get ugly fast. A single 200-300 watt 15 combo IMO is plenty for most indoor gigs. Outdoors now that's a different story. Not much more is needed though as long as you have a good P.A.

+1002 I feel really sorry for the sound guy since it is me

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by Rooster009

I feel sorry for the sound guy at some of these gigs y'all are talking about. When the stage overrides the front of house things can get ugly fast. A single 200-300 watt 15 combo IMO is plenty for most indoor gigs. Outdoors now that's a different story. Not much more is needed though as long as you have a good P.A.

You must be playing with crap soundmen, according to the doom exponents. IME you're dead right.

Of course, good PA is not a given for a lot of us. Many would be better to invest in full PA than huge bass rigs if you ask me.

[blindrabbit]

Some people gig with no amp at all. So a combo should be fine. I never had any issues. You get FOH support and also some in the monitors if needed.

[SBsoundguy]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

You must be playing with crap soundmen, according to the doom exponents. IME you're dead right.

Of course, good PA is not a given for a lot of us. Many would be better to invest in full PA than huge bass rigs if you ask me.

This is true.

[Lobaw]

Polytone Mini Brute - 100 watts (give or a take) 15" combo. Seemed to do the trick for years for moderate electric and upright gigs. But I agree, it really does depend on the situation. How's that for being incredibly general?

Edit: And, in a few situations, incredibly, it kept up with a loud rock band. The combo I did use for some loud rock gigs was the SWR Redhead with a Goliath Jr. Impressively loud.

[bassybill]

Combos are fine for gigging, unless:

a) the band is way too loud on stage, which is unfortunately often the case, or
b) the PA and the rest of the band's gear is not up to the needs of the gig, which will often include sending the bass FOH - but not every time, depending on volume/style of gig/room et cetera.

If the band is stupidly loud on stage, and/or you're trying to fill a huge room with bass and no PA support, then combos are not fine for gigging. In fact, good luck sounding even halfway decent both on stage and out front in those circumstances with ANY rig - that's a total crap shoot.

As for why one would choose a combo over separates, given the range of stuff on the market - well, I for one actually prefer the combo format in some ways. For years now, I've used a single 210 for quite a few of my gigs, just for on stage sound with the bass going through the PA. I like to have the 210 tilted back in those circumstances. Doing that enables me to hear my bass loud and very clear in the on-stage mix without overpowering the rest of the band. When I was using a cab + head, I had to carry both, plus a stand for tilting the cab, and then think about where to put the head on stage, as the top of the cab was angled back and the head couldn't be placed on it. Think about it - with a 210 cab and a head, where do you put the latter in an accessible place on stage if you can't put it on top of your cab?

With my Markbass 210 combo, the design enables me to tilt back with no stand and no issues about where to put the amp. Easiest stage setup I've ever had, in one box that can be carried with one hand. Of course, the fact that the sound that comes out of it to my ears is exactly what I want is all part of the satisfaction equation, too. If it wasn't, I wouldn't use it.

I know some people prefer being able to mix and match heads and cabs - fine, I can see huge advantages in that. But I'm just posting in response to those who wrongly say stuff like "There's no real reason to ever prefer a combo over a comparable separates rig". We all have our own reason for choosing what we use - lots of them - and my own reason for preferring a combo, as described here, is unambiguous and totally valid. I'm sure that goes for others, too.

[Stumbo]

Some previous threads on the topic:
1 Buying a combo
2
Opinions/experiences-great small combo amps
The ultimate custom built combo?

Combos vs Head/Cab
Pre-amp/Power Amp vs Head/Cab or Combo

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by bassybill

Combos are fine for gigging, unless:

a) the band is way too loud on stage, which is unfortunately often the case, or
b) the PA and the rest of the band's gear is not up to the needs of the gig, which will often include sending the bass FOH - but not every time, depending on volume/style of gig/room et cetera.

If the band is stupidly loud on stage, and/or you're trying to fill a huge room with bass and no PA support, then combos are not fine for gigging. In fact, good luck sounding even halfway decent both on stage and out front in those circumstances with ANY rig - that's a total crap shoot.

As for why one would choose a combo over separates, given the range of stuff on the market - well, I for one actually prefer the combo format in some ways. For years now, I've used a single 210 for quite a few of my gigs, just for on stage sound with the bass going through the PA. I like to have the 210 tilted back in those circumstances. Doing that enables me to hear my bass loud and very clear in the on-stage mix without overpowering the rest of the band. When I was using a cab + head, I had to carry both, plus a stand for tilting the cab, and then think about where to put the head on stage, as the top of the cab was angled back and the head couldn't be placed on it. Think about it - with a 210 cab and a head, where do you put the latter in an accessible place on stage if you can't put it on top of your cab?

With my Markbass 210 combo, the design enables me to tilt back with no stand and no issues about where to put the amp. Easiest stage setup I've ever had, in one box that can be carried with one hand. Of course, the fact that the sound that comes out of it to my ears is exactly what I want is all part of the satisfaction equation, too. If it wasn't, I wouldn't use it.

I know some people prefer being able to mix and match heads and cabs - fine, I can see huge advantages in that. But I'm just posting in response to those who wrongly say stuff like "There's no real reason to ever prefer a combo over a comparable separates rig". We all have our own reason for choosing what we use - lots of them - and my own reason for preferring a combo, as described here, is unambiguous and totally valid. I'm sure that goes for others, too.

Awesome, you've summed up what goes on completely, without yanking anyone's chain. Nice job.

I had to laugh at the "tip back my 2x10 now where the heck do I put my amp problem". I get the feeling from a lot of posters that nobody is ever struggling not to smack a cymbal with the head of their bass in the land of excess. Lucky for me Trace thought to put feet on the side of the amp sleeve.

[Downunderwonder]

For the record I voted no out of civic duty, because in the land of excess noobs buy combos expecting too much and experienced guys can make up their own mind.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Awesome, you've summed up what goes on completely, without yanking anyone's chain. Nice job.

I had to laugh at the "tip back my 2x10 now where the heck do I put my amp problem". I get the feeling from a lot of posters that nobody is ever struggling not to smack a cymbal with the head of their bass in the land of excess. Lucky for me Trace thought to put feet on the side of the amp sleeve.

Yeah, I used to stand my head on its side like that, too, right next to the tilt stand and the cab. That was okay, did it for ages. One very minor issue was that some of knobs on the head were then really close to the floor if I wanted to twiddle with them.

This, for me, is exactly what I want. No tilt stand, no problems with twiddling, compact footprint - just plug in the power cable, the bass and an XLR to the DI. With this in one hand, bass in the other and a gig bag over my shoulder, I can walk into most gigs from the car in one trip and be ready to go in a couple of minutes. Bliss.



Depending on the gig, I sometimes velcro stuff to the combo as well - like my tuner (although with my graphite neck basses I can tune just fine before leaving the house ), Korg Pandora (with one of my bands I use a few effects, especially the excellent built-in octaver for a few numbers) or my wireless receiver (if I'm running the gig, I like to be able to go out front during the sound check).

[Downunderwonder]

Heh, you can afford neo. The Trace is only 30lb but my 2x10 is just a bit too heavy to do it all in one trip.

[Downunderwonder]

Getting a bit OT here after the edit of all edits.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Getting a bit OT here after the edit of all edits.

Yeah, sorry for the derail. I got carried away by how easy I have managed to make my life.

Nowadays, for the sort of gigs I generally do, I'm reaping the rewards of the effort and thought that I've put into carrying and setting up the minimum possible quantity of gear needed to do a good job while enjoying the gig. Works for me - wouldn't work for everyone.

As far as affording neo goes - I bought my CMD102P back in 2006 for about £700. That was a good price and since then it's paid for itself many times over. Nowadays they're about £900-£950 over here, which is getting pricey but still fair, I think, all things considered.

[Downunderwonder]

So the answer to the new question is still "only if you can find and carry a trace elliot 8x10 combo upstairs singlehanded".

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by stepswork4me

I know in the past, finding a truly giggable combo was near impossible. In recent years, the quality of this market seems to have grown in leaps and bounds. I've personally played a few from TC that are definitely gig worthy. What's your experience? Opinions are always welcome, as I have mine. But, I would really prefer to hear your experiences.

Edit: Let's say playing with distorted guitar/s and a hard hitting drummer.

You have always been able to gig with a combo if you also use a P.A. Many well known artists have gone to using combos even in large venues. High powered amps became common in the 1960s because that was the only way the audience could hear what was being played. At that time, it was usually just vocals which were being sent through the P.A. With modern systems you can get use a combo in a small venue without running through a P.A. and can run through a P.A. in large venues.

[stepswork4me]

I see that I'm not alone in getting use out of combos. As a rule of thumb, I would say test out anything that you're thinking of gigging. You may be surprised.

[Russell L]

Lemme see, I've gigged with:

Fender Bassman 60 combo
Fender Bassman 150 combo
SWR Workingman's 12 combo
Peavey Combo 300
Trace Elliot GP7 SM 115 combo
Markbass CMD 121H combo

Yeah, they're giggable.

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by stepswork4me

I'll just say that my experience differs on that.

Please do tell. Which 15" speaker that can truly handle 500 watts of bass (say @100hz), has been loaded in to a combo that has not compromised on cab size?

IME most 115 combos have very little true low bass, but have a ton of mid/low mid honk.

[GRAHAM SG1]

Combos I have had;

Marshall MB4210
GK MB210 with GK MBE 115 extension cab
GK MB212

My band runs with backline only and PA just for vocals, IME none of the above combos has had sufficient quality output at gig levels with our rock,R&R, blues covers trio .

[stepswork4me]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Please do tell. Which 15" speaker that can truly handle 500 watts of bass (say @100hz), has been loaded in to a combo that has not compromised on cab size?

IME most 115 combos have very little true low bass, but have a ton of mid/low mid honk.

Look into the BG500... I would believe that there are others.