Gigging Rig:advice needed...

theFALLEN · #1 04-08-2010, 04:50 PM

Hey guys,

Wanted to ask your opinion on my current gear setup. I have uber GAS at the moment with wanting to spend silly amounts of money and upgrade my gigging rig...

I play in a Killswitch Engage/Avenged Sevenfold esq band and as such attempt to push out a punchy growly tone.

I am up against some serious competition in the band going against two EVH5505, a HUGE drum kit and alot of electronic samples.

I'm currently playing through an Ashdown ABM EVO II 500 210 combo and am wondering how much difference a 410 cab would make such as the Ashdown ABM410 which is 650 watts at 8 ohms. I realize that I am never going to achieve an 810 1000 watt sound with this current amp, so please hold the condescending comments, however I am specifically wanting to know how much difference a 410 will make.

Thanks guys!

will33 · #2 04-08-2010, 04:55 PM

All else being equal, you should gain about 6db. It'll be noticably louder but still might not compete with twin guitar stacks and electronic stuff with power behind it. Mess with the eq and try to find a place to sit in the mix and be heard without getting into a volume war.

TAZ · #3 04-08-2010, 04:59 PM

More cone the better. Unplug from your 2x10 and plug into (2) 4x10s.

theFALLEN · #4 04-08-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

All else being equal, you should gain about 6db. It'll be noticably louder but still might not compete with twin guitar stacks and electronic stuff with power behind it. Mess with the eq and try to find a place to sit in the mix and be heard without getting into a volume war.

In everyone's opinion is a 500watt head powerful enough for my situation? I realise that I am without adding the 410 cab but will this remedy my situation or should I save my money and upgrade to a more powerful head?

RickenBoogie · #5 04-08-2010, 05:09 PM

500 watts should be more than enough. I gig with 300 in a very loud hard rock band. The key to volume is SPEAKERS. A 4x10 would be a big improvement, but a pair of 2x12's would be even better.

**B-string** · #6 04-08-2010, 05:10 PM

The equiv. amp to doubling speakers would require 4-to 10 times the power. So if you want to go the more powerful amp route from a 500 watt amp, start looking at at least 1500 to 2000 watts from the amp....then you STILL need the speakers to handle all the wattage. Add the cabs first and see where you sit before you start looking into a more powerful amp head.

will33 · #7 04-08-2010, 05:13 PM

You've got enough power, add speakers, just make sure the ohms don't get too low.

theFALLEN · #8 04-08-2010, 05:21 PM

If a 410 would make alot of difference, would a 610 make more difference?

Will my 500 watt amp be able to power both the original 210 speakers in the combo and an additional 610 cabinet?

If I was to get a 410 cabinet, what wattage should I look at? For example, would a 4ohm 650 watt cabinet work well? Please advise.

Thanks guys.

**B-string** · #9 04-08-2010, 05:25 PM

Yes a 610 will be better (210+610= an 810). A 650 watt 4 ohm cab will be fine. As a ballpark don't get a cab with less than 400 watt handling, to high a power handling (like a 2000 watt) you will loose sensitivity per watt of input.

RickenBoogie · #10 04-08-2010, 05:26 PM

More important to match the impedance. Your combo amp should say what it's min impedance is, and then you go from there. Wattage ratings on a cab mean next to nothing. But, if it's an 8 ohm combo with a 4 ohm min, you'd need an 8 ohm cab. If it's a 4 ohm combo with a 2 ohm min., you'd need a 4 ohm cab. need to figure that out first.

theFALLEN · #11 04-08-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

More important to match the impedance. Your combo amp should say what it's min impedance is, and then you go from there. Wattage ratings on a cab mean next to nothing. But, if it's an 8 ohm combo with a 4 ohm min, you'd need an 8 ohm cab. If it's a 4 ohm combo with a 2 ohm min., you'd need a 4 ohm cab. need to figure that out first.

From what I understand my amp has a minimum impedance of 4ohms ( http://www.ashdownmusic.com/bass/det...tion=abm&ID=10 ) therefore I would need to look for a cabinet of 8ohms, such as this one: http://www.electromusic.co.uk/Ashdown-USA-610.html

Please could you advise whether this would be feasible?

Would the sound produced by this "rig" be of a similar sound to the same head but with an 810 rig?

Thanks guys.

will33 · #12 04-08-2010, 05:48 PM

In your situation, I'd look at 8ohm cabs if they are a 410 or smaller, that allows you to use a pair of them, resulting in the 4ohm minimum. If it's a 610 or 810, using a single 4ohm cab might be ok because it's likely to be your only one, big cab. It does limit you from being able to string any more cabs on to it but it's already one big cab instead of 2 smaller ones.

215, 412, 610 or 810---4ohm cab ok.

115, 212, 210, 410---I'd be looking at 8ohm cabs so you can add another if you deem it necessary.

theFALLEN · #13 04-08-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

In your situation, I'd look at 8ohm cabs if they are a 410 or smaller, that allows you to use a pair of them, resulting in the 4ohm minimum. If it's a 610 or 810, using a single 4ohm cab might be ok because it's likely to be your only one, big cab. It does limit you from being able to string any more cabs on to it but it's already one big cab instead of 2 smaller ones.

215, 412, 610 or 810---4ohm cab ok.

115, 212, 210, 410---I'd be looking at 8ohm cabs so you can add another if you deem it necessary.

I would be using a 610 cab aswell as using the 210 cab attatched to the head (as its a combo amp) would this make a difference?

610 cab: 1200watt, 4ohm
Head: 575 watt, min 4ohm

Please advise?

Thanks guys.

RickenBoogie · #14 04-08-2010, 06:00 PM

No, you're correct, you need an 8 ohm ext cab. The problem with going "big", is that your amp will split it's power between the 2 speaker cabs, half going into 210's, the other half going into the 610's. As you can see, this will put undo strain on the 210's, while the 610 won't even feel it. Personally, in this situation, I'd advise against a big cab like that, and look for something more "balanced", like another 210, or even a 1x15. I suppose a 410 would be ok, but still imbalanced. Unless it's possible to disconnect the internal 210's, then go for a big cab, and make it a 4 ohm cab. But, in that case, you might as well just get an amp head.

theFALLEN · #15 04-08-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

No, you're correct, you need an 8 ohm ext cab. The problem with going "big", is that your amp will split it's power between the 2 speaker cabs, half going into 210's, the other half going into the 610's. As you can see, this will put undo strain on the 210's, while the 610 won't even feel it. Personally, in this situation, I'd advise against a big cab like that, and look for something more "balanced", like another 210, or even a 1x15. I suppose a 410 would be ok, but still imbalanced. Unless it's possible to disconnect the internal 210's, then go for a big cab, and make it a 4 ohm cab. But, in that case, you might as well just get an amp head.

Thanks dude, this has really answered my question.

I think that it would be best to trade in and get a new head and cab so that I can get the power that I need.

Thank's for your advice guys, its appreciated.

will33 · #16 04-08-2010, 06:08 PM

You'd have to disconnect the 210 internal speakers in the combo and just run the 610 or you'd run into impedance problems (fry the amp after a while). Also not a good idea to mix-n-match cabs that are that different, ie: 1/2 the power would be going to the 210, divided between only 2 speakers and the other 1/2 of the power going to the 610, divided by 6 speakers. The 210 would be getting it's guts ripped out while the 610 wouldn't be getting fed enough to do what it's capable of doing.

If the combo's a 210, you could try adding another 210 or a 115 to it, if that's not enough, it may be time to use separates, ie: a head and a pair of cabs.

georgestrings · #17 04-08-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theFALLEN

Thanks dude, this has really answered my question.

I think that it would be best to trade in and get a new head and cab so that I can get the power that I need.

Thank's for your advice guys, its appreciated.

I think you're on the right track now, with your situation as described - anywhere between 300-500watts thru a decent 610 *should* be enough for any reasonable band situation... I typically play modern rock/metal in fairly loud bands, and do quite well with a 480watt G-K 700rb-II thru a Mesa PH610... I've also gotten excellent results with that same amp thru an Ampeg SVT810e or an SWR Goliath Sr(a 610)...

IMO, a combo just isn't gonna cut it in a loud rock band - and a 410 is barely adequate for that sort of thing, too... I prefer to have more speakers than I actually need, so that I never have to drive my rig all that hard - which for me, is atleast a 610 or a 215...

- georgestrings

baron665 · #18 04-09-2010, 04:45 AM

It has an effects loop/line out right? Try running the line out into another similar combo amp. Instead of dropping $600 bucks on a cab. Buy another high wattage gigging combo amp. Peavey just came out with new TNT (15" 600 watts) and TKO (15" 400 watts) combos (plus both have speaker outs). Run the line out from one amp into the power amp section of the other amp. That way, you can have more wattage without worrying about impedance and ohms, and add a cab, as well as keep the same preamp you currently have. You still have the option of running another cab as well. Just a suggestion.