GK 212MBE- feedback wanted..

[Sparty]

Have got an ampeg pf500 (500w@4ohms).
Will 2x gk212mbe's (8ohms each) give me a good loud set up?
Will I have to watch the volume or should they be able to handle what I throw at them.?
Also what sort of low tones end could these bad boys give me.?
I play in a loud band (not enough inputs on pa to go through desk so have to rely on back line). Just want to get a nice tone at volume. Using 2x15's at present but seems to struggle at volume(muddy) & get lost in mix out front any tips guys.
Lots if questions i know just want some insight or experienced feedback please.
Sparty (useless limey b#*$tarred)....hmm:

[christw]

What cabinet do you use? What EQ settings do you use on your amp? On your bass? What kind of music is it? There are a lot of factors that could go into why your 2x15 isn't cutting it with the PF500.

I can't comment on the GK. I have no first hand experience with anything but a 1001RB-II. A 2x15 should hang with most bands but there are exceptions...

[scottfeldstein]

The MBE cabs aren't as robust as the Neo line, but I liked the 210 I had a coupe of years ago. They tend to trade weight for performance. My 210 was pretty low, but couldn't get super loud, IME.

Still, a pair of 212 cabs should be pretty well matched with a 500w head. You'll have enough power in that amp to blow the speakers, but consider it headroom. Will it be loud? Yeah. If you're pushing them to the max, you should be wearing ear protection.

[Sparty]

Bass & treble setting are about 1 o'clock - Mids about 8oclock.. They all start at about seven o'clock. Bass & treble on full on guitar with Mids up half.. Both pick ups in play full volume.. Play pick style...
I've got two miss matched 15's tho (both heavy as hell two man job to carry)So wanted to upgrade to a matched pair and lighter on the the old back now I have some funds.
Play wedding / party tracks 60's (im a believer) to today's pop ( runaway baby Bruno mars)
Also found that some thing is tripping the sound and I'm cutting out but only for about a full second.. Think it's something to do with using both cabs ( I've destroyed the tweeter on the one so have detached it. Don't think it's the amp ( hope not anyway ) have a gig tonight that I will need only one cab so will give it a go to see if it happens with this set up.
Could there be any other factors that would make that happen. I'm not clipping and if I do it is minimal and I have the compressor on but at a low rating..

[christw]

You're extensively boosting your deep low end and that'll suck up all of your power and volume quickly. The amp cutting out is probably it's built in limiter/protection. Try running mids on position 1 and boosting a bit in place of some of the bass boosts while boosting treble like normal. It might free up some headroom in both the head and the cabinets.

With the PF500 you might want also want to run the compression a bit. It gives it a bit of a squishy tube amp feel to it and again, might increase headroom a bit. I think mine was always on at least 9 o'clock.

[Sparty]

Yeah great will give it a bash on sound check tonite.
i think for your monies the pf500 is a great value piece of kit to boot..
Thanks for your feedback

[steve_rolfeca]

Another thing to be aware of: The PF500 is known to not handle overloads gracefully. If it's driven too hard for too long, the protection will kick in, muting the output for brief periods. You should check the revision number to make sure it has all the upgrades, but my impression is that most or all PF500's will still behave that way under duress.

Still, 500 Ampeg watts is a lot of juice. The PF500 is a great amp that won't have a problem getting very, very loud with two reasonably efficient 15's, four twelves, a 6x10, or an 8x10 stack.

That's assuming that the EQ is used properly. Others were more diplomatic, but the kind of settings you describe are often referred to as "bedroom tone" on TB. They work with a cheap practice amp where the bass and treble are missing, or in a small rehearsal space where room boom doesn't have much room to develop. They don't work on the gig.

Working without PA support is a funny thing. Years ago, a bandleader handed me a 30-foot cord, and sent me out onto the dance floor in the middle of a set. Sure enough, it turned out that my nice, fat stage sound had turned muddy and indistinct. That night, I discovered that I needed to sound almost nasal and honky on stage, in order to get a really great tone out in the room.

The "guts" of your sound is in the mids. When you cut them way back on your bass AND your amp, you gut your tone, period. After the damage is done, it's only natural to turn up the bass to recover some volume and fullness, and to boost the treble in an attempt to get the definition back, but it doesn't work. What it does do, is waste a ton of power down low, where it stresses your speakers and your amp.

A little scoop goes a long way. Ditto with bass boost. There are a few amps, like the Genz Benz Streamliner, that sound good and work well at extreme knob settings, but the PF500 isn't one of them.

On an amp with 4-band EQ, like a G-K, you can cut the bass a bit (11:00 o'clock), and boost the low mids (about 1:00 o'clock) to compensate. That preserves the "punch", but wastes a lot less energy down low, where your speakers can't handle it.

On an amp with 3-band EQ, like your Ampeg, you can achieve roughly the same thing by leaving the bass at noon or 1 o'clock, and bringing the mids up to at least 10 or 11:00 o'clock.

Ditto for the controls on your bass. With the bass and mids at more reasonable settings, you'll also be forced to back off on the treble to avoid sounding thin and scratchy. As a side benefit, noise and hiss will go way down.

[garagebassman]

I love my 212MBE, and did finally get a second, even though one running from a MB500 was almost always more than enough headroom.....so I think it would be very good and loud yes.

But I have to agree with some of the mentions of eq (on bass and amp) adjustments before jumping into buying cabs.

I've found that the 212MBE can get quite loud, but I'd be surprised if You can't get enough volume from the 2 x 15 set up. the 212MBE does cut through very well though

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Sparty

Bass & treble setting are about 1 o'clock - Mids about 8oclock.. They all start at about seven o'clock. Bass & treble on full on guitar with Mids up half

Whoa. You're boosting lows and highs and virtually eliminating mids on the amp?

You've got bass and treble maxed on the guitar? What kind of bass is this? Does it take a battery?

[Roadkill]

The mid should be at noon if you want to cut at all. It won't sound as good solo but once the band starts up you need those mids. Been there, done that .

Oh, and I have a pair of the 4 ohm 212MBE's - they cut like a chainsaw and will take the 500w no prob .

[Sparty]

The bass is ibanez sr600 active with Bart pick ups.
Have tried at last gig boosting the Mids to 12 o'clock through 115 cab and equalising the guitar tones to flat.. Got a lot of good feedback from our followers saying how good the sound was that nite.. Can't wait for my 212 mbe's to arrive and try them out. Also bought myself a 15 mtr guitar lead just for sound checking..
Think I will set up amp generically and use guitar tones to adjust tones to suit room.. And go from there..

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Sparty

Think I will set up amp generically and use guitar tones to adjust tones to suit room.. And go from there..

Problem is - again - if you tweak it to sound good with just you playing it won't sit well in the band mix. Keep those mids up!

[Sparty]

Yeah would be sound checking with the full band when doing it.
Will be interesting seeing the difference between old set up and new thanks to you guys on TB..
Have been guilty of finding what I thinks a nice sound rather than what sounds best for the band..

[Sparty]

How do you stack your cabs?? Vertical or horizontal ? Does it make a difference??

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Sparty

How do you stack your cabs?? Vertical or horizontal ? Does it make a difference??

You get better dispersion if you stack them vertically.

[scottfeldstein]

Originally Posted by Sparty

The bass is ibanez sr600 active with Bart pick ups.
Have tried at last gig boosting the Mids to 12 o'clock through 115 cab and equalising the guitar tones to flat.. Got a lot of good feedback from our followers saying how good the sound was that nite.

I'm sure it was an improvement!

[Sparty]

Might sound a bit numpty is it better to stack like this

Oo
oO

Or like this

O
O
O
O

As I think they are staggered??

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Sparty

Might sound a bit numpty is it better to stack like this

Oo
oO

Or like this

O
O
O
O

As I think they are staggered??

Stack them with the handle up and feet down and logo horizontal like they are intended to be run .

[pan1k]

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

The MBE cabs aren't as robust as the Neo line, but I liked the 210 I had a coupe of years ago. They tend to trade weight for performance. My 210 was pretty low, but couldn't get super loud, IME.

Still, a pair of 212 cabs should be pretty well matched with a 500w head. You'll have enough power in that amp to blow the speakers, but consider it headroom. Will it be loud? Yeah. If you're pushing them to the max, you should be wearing ear protection.

I have the mbe 212. I bought it brand new a few moths ago should I pick up a second one or sell it for a pair of neo 12's? Would the latter improve the tone / allow extra headroom?

[scottfeldstein]

Hard to say. I'd look up the specs on power handling and frequency response. I wouldn't expect a huge difference, but the Neos may be better cabs in some ways.