That GK 800RB growl... do the new MBs have it?

IntrepidCellist · #1 11-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Just curious. I'm loving the old GnR tone, and I'm curious if one of the MBs could get that growly "driven but clear" tone you get by pummelling an old 800RB with a pick.

I haven't played any of the new MB series (other than the combos) so I have no frame of reference as to how they sound; I spent a lot of time with an old 800RB at a rehearsal studio a few years back though and loved it.

powellmacaque · #2 11-21-2011, 09:55 PM

It's not 800RB growly at all, but the MB Fusion is "driven but clear" to me. Completely different flavor from the 800RB altogether, but it's very punchy, defined, and growly all in its own.

If you loved the 800RB, you will like (if not love) the MB Fusion.

WingKL · #3 11-22-2011, 12:14 AM

No. The classic GK "growl" or grunt as I hear it, comes from the power amp hitting its power supply rails. Class-D MB amps do not hit the rails like that. They, in fact, have limiters to prevent that kind of thing from happening. You can probably get other types of growl depending on your cab and bass, just not the classic GK growl.

clauscaixa · #4 11-22-2011, 12:27 AM

The limiter on the MB500 is defeatable but I always leave it in operation. I have yet to push it anywhere near max output so I have no idea what it would sound like. To crank it to max output would tear down our 1000 sq. feet jam space.

If class-D amps sound so awfull when pushed beyond max output why put a defeatable limiter on it.

I like the growly "boost" channel of the MB500 but cannot compare to 800rb.

bongomania · #5 11-22-2011, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingKL

No. The classic GK "growl" or grunt as I hear it, comes from the power amp hitting its power supply rails.

That is exactly what a GK engineer said in a post here on TB a few years ago. I don't have a link, but I remember him saying the very same thing.

I'm in the same boat as claus, I love the fat'n'dirty tone of the MB500 boost channel, but I am not able to make a comparison with the old amps.

WingKL · #6 11-22-2011, 07:37 AM

Yeah, that engineer would be Robert Gallien himself(rag).

KJung · #7 11-22-2011, 07:43 AM

+1 The MB500 is MUCH bigger down low than the 800RB, and MUCH more extended into the upper treble. You can still get some of that 1K GK upper mid grind, but it doesn't sound the same as the very compressed sounding 800RB, with that huge dose of midrange versus the lows and highs of the MB500. The MBFusion is yet another totally different thing.

garagebassman · #8 11-22-2011, 09:08 AM

I actually think it's very similar.

I have had a couple of 800's but still hang on to my 86 400RB, similar, maybe a bit "warmer" ?

And IMO the 400RB through (mainly) an 80's GK410 (with orig pyle speakers).....is a very grindy sound (very similar to that Gn'R Duff tone)

and my MB500 through 212MBE , although it has much more low end capability/extension, the accentuated uppermids and highs seem to balance it out nicely, and be a louder more powerful (not to mention more portable)version of the old 400RB setup

I still a/b them at times, and just think they're really close.

IMO, much closer than the 700RB II and 212neoI....though Like them all

Wadge · #9 11-22-2011, 09:32 AM

I've never tried an 800RB but I'm fairly familiar with the tone. I do own a 400RB and a MB500. To my mind the 400RB is not as dirty as the 800RB but is a bit mellower and warmer whilst the MB500 is warmer still although you can still get some of the GK growl and is quite musical.

husky123 · #10 11-22-2011, 09:51 AM

I've been running GK heads since the 80's and their tone just does it for me. I recently owned an MB Fusion but let it go. I currently have an MB200 as a backup/practice amp. For that, it is wonderful....still gives "me" about 90% of THAT tone I like.

I cannot/will not let go of my mid-80's 800RB. There's just something magical about that tone to me. I can get it fast and easy in a variety of rooms. I run it biamped and it has all the power I'll ever need. When I need that extra 10% the 800RB gets the call.

So, in the end, to me yes they are close but it just doesn't quite touch the "je ne sais..." of the 800.

IntrepidCellist · #11 11-22-2011, 07:43 PM

So the boost knob doesn't do it?

robgrow · #12 11-22-2011, 08:42 PM

My GK 800RB and MB500 sound quite different, with the MB500 having scooped mids type of voicing with deeper sounding lows and more open sounding highs than the old 800RB. However I miss the very special voicing of the mids and the presence that the 800RB has. The 800RB has a character all its own that you just can't get with the MB500 no matter how you turn the knobs. Fortunately the MB500 sounds good in its own way, and its small size and light weight are great for the kinds of gigs I do most of the time.

meatwad · #13 11-22-2011, 08:49 PM

I like the idea of someday picking up a 700 or 1001RBII, based on reviews saying how they have the classic GK sound. I've wondered the same thing as the OP about the MB series, but now I'm even more intrigued about them after reading this thread. :-)

Igotsoul4u · #14 11-22-2011, 08:56 PM

I bought the MB500 because i thought it still provided a "GK" sound. I am going to do a shoot out in a couple weeks comparing a Hartke LH500, GK MB500, and GK800RB through my epifani cab recorded extremely well. I also play the older 400RB at my church that I know very well. I am curious to see how they compare.

IntrepidCellist · #15 11-22-2011, 09:22 PM

JGR does a pretty damn good tone. A lot of that is the bass, technique, and cabs; but a good chunk of it is the amp too. This is the sort of thing I'd like to emulate.

Gallien Krueger GK800RB + Bag End S15-D's.MOV - YouTube

husky123 · #16 11-23-2011, 04:42 AM

^^^That is a beautiful tone for sure. Classic.

**Chef** · #17 11-23-2011, 08:05 AM

Man, it's been a long time since I played any of the older, non-MB GK's, but it seems to me that the MB stuff is solidly in the same tone family. The preamp eq points across the GK family are almost exactly the same.
If the diff in tone b/t RB and MB is "how they hit the rails at the limit," that's most certainly a moot point to me, as I never ran the old stuff that hard, and have never run the MB-Fusion or MB800 anywhere near that hard either.

KJung · #18 11-23-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

Man, it's been a long time since I played any of the older, non-MB GK's, but it seems to me that the MB stuff is solidly in the same tone family. The preamp eq points across the GK family are almost exactly the same.
If the diff in tone b/t RB and MB is "how they hit the rails at the limit," that's most certainly a moot point to me, as I never ran the old stuff that hard, and have never run the MB-Fusion or MB800 anywhere near that hard either.

They are way different sounding. The old RB's were such low power, and had such an attenuated low end that a certain 'magic' (for some) happened with those heads when they were pushed a little bit. I would never go back there myself (we had an RB800 in the mix with many of the more modern heads at a GTG a while back, and the difference was stunning.... the 800 growled and snarled and punched, but produced very little true deep low end, and had an unbelievable amount of midrange distortion in that preamp.

Just because the knob layout is the same has very little to do with comparing power sections, limiting designs, and inherent preamp voicing.

**Chef** · #19 11-23-2011, 08:13 AM

Did they sound all that different at a low volume, that wasn't bouncing off the rails?

btw: I'm not talking knob layout per se, but, basic preamp design and eq points.

KJung · #20 11-23-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

Did they sound all that different at a low volume, that wasn't bouncing off the rails?

btw: I'm not talking knob layout per se, but, basic preamp design and eq points.

Yes. And again, most amps have similar EQ points but sound very different. IMO and IME, the vast majority of tonal difference between amps has to do with the amount of midrange distortion built into the design, the hi and lo passing of the unit (or however the designer accomplishes the 'range restriction' on the amp), and the limiting design and/or how the amp performs when you hit the power section hard (not necessarily volume-wise, but those peaks when digging in or whatever).

Totally different tone, and most have always considered the older RB line to be quite different from anything else they have produced, for better or worse. Classic heads, and even though I gigged an RB for many years, I would personally kill myself if I had to gig one today

Edit: Not saying that they all don't have somewhat of that signature tone of that very goosed upper mid response, and that kind of 'grit and dirt' in the upper midrange.... its just a bit different across all the amp lines, and most different IMO with the MB. The Fusion is one that is 'least GK sounding' to my ear, which I guess makes sense with the tubes in there.