GK Cabs and due for an amp upgrade...

[mintondm]

Ok Guys, need your expertise again here, and this is gonna sound absolutely retarded coming from an electrical engineer who works for Community Loudspeakers... so go easy on the bashing and don't think ill of my company because of my idiocy, I'm learning the industry here... lol.

I bought some used gear for my first bass stack a while ago:

GK Backline 600
300W @ 4 ohms

it was running

GK GLX 410 Cab
400 W @ 8 Ohms

I picked up

GK GLX 115 Cab
400 W @ 8 Ohms


Now I've read about every post on here about calculating ohms vs watts for sizing, and every opinion on here! And I realize that I'm only landing about 150 W per cab, so it's severely "underpowered" (and by that I mean in capacity and potential).

I'm at a cross roads now, should I suck up the fact that I should drop about 800 bucks for

1001RB-II
700 W @ 4 ohms
(350 W Each Cab)

Or should I consider getting a good GK Pre-amp and buying a separate power amp for my juice?

I'm running a decent pedal setup, both of my basses are active, running fairly hot through the pickups and wireless feed, and I play mostly hard rock, classic rock, and Southern Rock.

I DO see a little bit of clipping on the Backline, but that's almost all front end with my signal coming in too hot. I'm working on my EQ/Compressor settings for that though! Lol.

I guess I'm really looking for suggestions and alternatives, or I'm just going to suck-up the purchase and get the 1001RB.

And as a passing note, considering I am running a 410 and a 115, what about a crossover and running two smaller amps? Maybe put my highs through the 410 and the lows to the 115? Just an idea!!



Thanks in advance, you guys rock!

[4Mal]

The 1001 RB II can be had for way less that that Gallien-Krueger 1001RB-II Bi-amped Bass Amplifier Head | RMCAudioDirect.com

note that you have to email or call to get the best price. RMC kick's booty customer service wise. Love those guys!

The amp itself is an industrial workhorse and it's pretty much in a league of it's own anywhere near it's price range. They are generally a safe purchase used from the GFS here. No way I'd do a 700 over the 1001. they sound virtually identical if you spend the time sussing how they work. I'll opt for headroom if given the choice.

There are a few threads here about the wisdom, or lack thereof in combining 4x10's and 1x15's. The basic gist of it all is - bad combination. It isn't just about power handling. it is a combination of things, power handling being one variable, efficiency and frequency response being two others.

In general the 1x15 is not tuned lower than the 4x10 and serves more or less as a cabinet stand for the 4x10. Using 2 amps could make it better but probably not. IME - 10's and 15's don't really mate up all that well. Seems they are more prone to competing for sonic space. Not too mention that having 4 voice coils dedicated to the frequencies where there is less energy and 1 dedicated to those with more energy is, maybe not a well thoughout solution.

Suggestion 1 - drop by the fEarful threads to get a sense of what a modern cab design looks like.
Suggestion 1a -Don't want to DIY ? read through the fEarful thread, then order a TB 15/6/1 from Avatar.

Suggestion 2 - match your cab's if you really want to lug all that stuff around.

Suggestion 3 - Square 4x10 cabs ... Right up close they can provide almost violent stage monitoring but things do not improve as you get out into the house. They comb filter badly and the result is a rather uneven response out front, where it counts.

[tdub0199]

I bought my 1001RB II used for $425.00... I think the 700RB II should do the trick for you and you can find those for around $300.00 used....

[Stompin Tom]

First question is: do you find your current rig lacking? Is there something wrong with what you're getting out of the backline 600?

I'm consistently floored by how many watts a lot of folks around here want. Unless you're playing outside events/stadiums/gyms w/out PA support, I'd be surprised that the backline isn't enough power... on the other hand, if something doesn't sound good to you, then that's an excellent excuse to buy something new!

[Jaco who?]

Most cabs thermal power ratings are way way overrated. GLX cabs even more so. You might not want to base a 1001 RB-II upgrade on the cabs you're using now - folks will chime in that they love them, but you might be sorry to think Goldline stuff can handle much more power than you currently use.

[Stompin Tom]

Originally Posted by Jaco who?

Most cabs thermal power ratings are way way overrated. GLX cabs even more so. You might not want to base a 1001 RB-II upgrade on the cabs you're using now - folks will chime in that they love them, but you might be sorry to think Goldline stuff can handle much more power than you currently use.

Good point. I will add that from my experience, and from what I've read on the interwebs (take with a grain of salt), the backline 600 is an excellent amp, but the goldline cabs are eh... cabs might be the better upgrade.

[RickenBoogie]

I agree, between what you have currently, the cab's are the weak link. I'd consider a pair of 8 ohm 2x12's, or a pair of any matching 8 ohm cabs, (or a BIG 4 ohm cab, like an 810, 215, 412, etc) and worry about the amp upgrade later.

[mintondm]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it!

Just to touch on the concerns and reasons I posted for were:

I had picked up the 115 to help add more lower frequency support to the 410 (help move more air)

The other reason was it was only 300 bucks and seemed like an intelligent match at the time to get the full stack and hopefully match the tone of the 410 (same cone material, manufacturing, ect.)


Currently, yes, I'm running for larger venue sound, 500+ venue sizes and smaller and some outdoor events, and I do run separate from the PA when possible to free up the PA to have everything else lined up, hence my need to be stand alone.

For me, while I've gotten quite a few new pieces of gear, a new bass and everything, I'm still trying to dime in my line sound and settings, but the problem I'm having with the 410 from the beginning is it complete lack of ability to support and push lows. I get a horrible amount of rattle and instability out of the 410 when trying to compete against a drummer that doesn't know how to control his volume and a guitar player the plays like Zack Wylde. Once I added the 115, I was able to get the extra umph sound wise, but I had been afraid that the amp was deficient at only half the power capabilities of the cabs.

Now, in my dream world, I had been considering the 1001RB-II paired with two Neo 2x12 cabs... I've played through that said up with a fellow bass players setup from another band and needless to say, it was orgasmic! So eventually, I hope to be able to have the cash for it, but right now, my stack has cost me 700 bucks total for a starter setup... Not really ready for the major upgrade yet I think, idk, that why I was trying to et a good plan of attack set up for it all...

Thanks for the input guys, you rock!

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by mintondm

I had picked up the 115 to help add more lower frequency support to the 410 (help move more air)

No offense intended, but that much could be readily inferred. Most guys who go for the 4x10 + 1x15 combination are trying to achieve this same goal.

Originally Posted by mintondm

For me, while I've gotten quite a few new pieces of gear, a new bass and everything, I'm still trying to dime in my line sound and settings, but the problem I'm having with the 410 from the beginning is it complete lack of ability to support and push lows. I get a horrible amount of rattle and instability out of the 410 when trying to compete against a drummer that doesn't know how to control his volume and a guitar player the plays like Zack Wylde.

Most lower-end 4x10s have difficulty pushing the lows. It's a deficiency that is hard-wired into the very design - and one of the major trade-offs in the effort to produce a high-efficiency cab with greater apparent loudness - due to the relative emphasis on mids, and the usual "bump" in the upper bass frequencies that can get boomy real fast - if one tries to compensate by boosting the lows via EQ.

Originally Posted by mintondm

Once I added the 115, I was able to get the extra umph sound wise, but I had been afraid that the amp was deficient at only half the power capabilities of the cabs.

Simply because you increased the total cone area you were driving, you were able to move enough air to begin to get better lows. Most any decent-sized additional cab could have done that for you. The 4x10 + 1x15 combination remains a deeply flawed one.

The dual GK Neo 2x12 stack is a great idea. You might be able to pick up a couple used ones more inexpensively than you realize - if you're patient and you know where to look...

MM

[OOZMAN]

Originally Posted by mintondm

I bought some used gear for my first bass stack a while ago:

GK Backline 600
300W @ 4 ohms

it was running

GK GLX 410 Cab
400 W @ 8 Ohms

I picked up

GK GLX 115 Cab
400 W @ 8 Ohms


Now I've read about every post on here about calculating ohms vs watts for sizing, and every opinion on here! And I realize that I'm only landing about 150 W per cab, so it's severely "underpowered" (and by that I mean in capacity and potential).

I'm at a cross roads now, should I suck up the fact that I should drop about 800 bucks for

1001RB-II
700 W @ 4 ohms
(350 W Each Cab)

I haven't read the whole thread (yeah I know there's only 9 posts ), so I don't know if someone has addressed this, but you say this amp is 700W at 4 ohms (stereo; CH1+CH2, I'm guessing), yet your cabs are 8ohms. So your power would be quite a bit less that 350W per cab, Probably a bit more than half that. Unless I am misinterpreting how you described the power specs. Do you have a link to the specs of the amp?

Just trying to help!

Another thing... do you really need more power? If you thought it was fine before you discovered the actual output watts, then why the need to upgrade? Listen with your ears not by how many watts your system has. 150W per cab is still quite a bit of power IMO.

peace.

[mintondm]

Thanks Michael, no offense taken, but I was simply trying to explain my justification for adding the other GLX instead of upgrading the cabs altogether, not to explain the common sense part of it lol.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick with what I have until I can find the 212 Neos. Should give me more flexibility as well with regard to not needing the full stack if I have PA house support, but when I need the extra capacity, I'll have it.

And thanks for posting Ooz, yeah it's 150w per cab at the moment, significantly under the threshold.

I'm thinking that the 1001rb is next followed very shortly by the Neo's as I find them cheap/used.

Thanks for the input guys!

[RivalBass]

This is the thread I have been looking for, as I'm newb with power handling, and can use some help deciding how much my amp can handle.

I currently have a 700rb-II paired w/ a GLX 410, sounds solid, but can use more bottom end.

The 700RB-II is... LF 480W @ 4 ohm; 320W @ 8 ohm, 1 kHz
HF 50W @ 8 ohm, 5kHz

While the GLX 410 Cab is...400W at 8 ohm

Is my amp head maxed out already? OR Can I add a 115 around 200-300 Watts @ 8 Ohms safely? Or will that total wattage exceed the 700RB-II capabilities at 8ohms, rendering it useless? Is my best alternative is to sell my cab and get 4ohm speakers? What's are my options? Any advice is appreciated.