GK MB500 vs. Aggy TH500...input requested

[Jerry Ziarko]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

Curious how do they differ with you AE 212?

Sorry, I missed this. Honestly, I've only had the TH500 for a couple of weeks, and have only used it with my Epifani UL310, and this past weekend, for a quick 1 hr hitter with my buds Ampeg 410hlf. I wasn't crazy about the match with the Ampeg, but it sounds great with the UL310. I tried it with the AE in the house and couldn't really get a vibe for what kind of match it would make. I would like to add something though. I've seen comments on how well the TH500 matches up with a P bass, especially with one strung with flats. Very old school! I on the other hand, go a completely different route with it. My main bass is one of two Sadowsky Moderns. As the name implies, a very modern in your face tone. The TH500 turns this bass into more of a round type instrument with very little prodding. While I miss the very glassy top end this bass has built into it, I have to say the end result is pretty interesting. I still can get a bit of the glassiness from it. The TH's treble knob is about the most functional I've ever run across. With most amps it's about the klack and squeak. With the Aggie you just get a very musical boost to the top end. One of these days I'll drag out the AE212 to see what it all about. While it may not be the perfect match with a traditional bass heavy instrument, it might be the cat's ass when paired up with my Sadowsky Modern.

[Bassist30]

Originally Posted by gypsyfireman

just called up RMC. Fusion500 is on the way. Great price, btw, and very cool guy. I'll report back.

Thanks for the insight, gentlemen. It's great to have a sounding board, and the experience and knowledge base here is terrific.

Next gig is in a week and a half, but from there out it should get pretty busy into feb and march, so i'm looking forward to getting to know this little guy.

cheers.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[gypsyfireman]

Originally Posted by Bassist30

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

thanks, i'm really looking forward to it. it should arrive today, and i'm psyched to check it out. i probably won't have the opportunity to give it a proper workout for another week or so, though.

[iualum]

Originally Posted by KJung

...

However, I call the TH500 the 'anti GK' head, and it will be quite a shock to you (big, fat, warm, mid complex, organic relaxed up top). Sometimes we 'think we want a big change and then not so much when we realize it'.

...

So where would the Streamliner 900 fit into this equation?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by iualum

So where would the Streamliner 900 fit into this equation?

I replaced my Streamliner900 with the TH500, primarily because I was tired of carrying around the AE410, which was a match made in heaven with the Streamliner900. I found the Streamliner VERY picky regarding cab pairings, and with some cabs, it was 'too much of a good thing'... fat, smooth, relaxed, but hard to punch up and brighten up at the same time. The AE410 did that automatically... really an amazing matchup to my ear, especially with a P Bass or other more passive, old school instruments.

The Streamliner900 is a totally different thing than either of these heads. MUCH more tubey sounding (in the way we use tubey on TB) than either... with a bit of the 'feel' of a tube amp (very rare in hybrids... it 'gives' a bit). It is very relaxed in the mids mids (versus the VERY aggressive punchy mid profile of the TH500), and is also very sweet and clean and tubey in the treble response (versus the much more aggressive, bright upper mid response of the GK.

I guess if I was forced to put these head on a single continuum, the MBFusion would be on the bright, modern, aggressive end, with the Streamliner on the complete other end of fat, tubey, relaxed, interactive, and 'tube give' side. The TH500 is kind of in the middle... big and round down low like the Streamliner, but very mid present and rough in the mids, and much more organic/less sizzly/less bright up top (edit: Really, all three of these amps are quite different, and most would have a STRONG preference of one over the other two. No amount of knob turning gets any of these three to sound anything like each other IMO... so my 'forcing them on a single continuum' doesn't really work)

Again, many who own both the DB750 and the TH500 find quite a bit of similarity between the two, with the DB750 being not surprisingly a bit bigger down low and a bit sweeter up top, and the TH500 having MUCH better control of the midrange with that powerful semi-parametric mid control and the drive function, which is kind of like a variable combination hi pass/lo pass in a way.

I very much like the fact that the TH500 gets very 'old school' sounding with my P, but does not need tubes to do it. It is a very simple, honestly rated, high quality and highly reliable amp (at least I haven't seen ANY problem posts in the year this amp has been out). I am a BIG fan of no tubes when I'm gigging on the road, as long as I don't feel I'm compromising my tone.

IMO, IMO and IME!

[Jim C]

Hey Ken,
While your at it, can you contrast and compare the 7-Pro along with the others?
I'm thinking that the TH500, Streamliner, Fusion, and 7 Pro make up the current batch of micro's that sound similar to tube amps.
Would also be curious, based on your experience, if any of these are poor candidates as used amps, based on production problems vs. transferable warranties.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jim C

Hey Ken,
While your at it, can you contrast and compare the 7-Pro along with the others?
I'm thinking that the TH500, Streamliner, Fusion, and 7 Pro make up the current batch of micro's that sound similar to tube amps.
Would also be curious, based on your experience, if any of these are poor candidates as used amps, based on production problems vs. transferable warranties.

I have not tried the 7-Pro, but that preamp has been around for a while. It sounds like an Ampeg tube amp from my experience with that SVT type single space pre they had out for a while. I think that is the same front end. The reliability still seems iffy on those though. Gets raves for tone and overall volume, and also complaints for shutting down when pushed. They did a revision, but not sure if that helped or not.

The Orange Terrors get pretty good reviews around here for being tubey, but I haven't played one (I hate that form factor and look). I'm sure it is more of an 'Orange' tube tone than an SVT (duh!)

Also, the Markbass TTE500 gets a lot of raves, but haven't had a chance to play one of those either (another form factor I don't really like).

Lots of stuff out there. I again would not put the MBFusion500 in this group myself... more like a 'GK with slightly smoothed uper mid/top end' to my ear. That ain't a bad thing, but it does not do the 'tubey' thing IMO and IME as we typically use that term on Talkbass. Reminds me more of the Mesa M6 (which is Mesa's take on a solid state sounding amp IMO).

[Jim C]

Interesting; sounds like (for you) a TH500 without preamp tubes sounds more tubey than the Fusion with 3 tubes.
Maybe technology is turning the corner on tone more now than ever.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jim C

Interesting; sounds like (for you) a TH500 without preamp tubes sounds more tubey than the Fusion with 3 tubes.
Maybe technology is turning the corner on tone more now than ever.

I do like the TH500. Not sure if I would call it 'tubey', but it sounds great with the P Bass! Sounds quite a bit like the DB751, which I wouldn't call particularly tubey either, even though it has some tubes in the preamp. I guess it emulates a bit of the 'dirt and grunt' you get when pushing an all tube power section... in a way, but not really.

And yes, while the MBFusion500 sounds a bit different from the MB500, it is pretty subtle, and I would doubt that anyone would identify that head as a hybrid on a blind basis. Sounds like a GK IMO and IME! Nothing wrong with that, but I do greatly prefer no tubes in the circuit at this point for general hassle-free operation, especially if they don't seem to do a whole lot.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by KJung

IF the statement above is truly representative of the direction you want to go, it would be the Aguilar TH500 all the way. That is almost a perfect description of the Aguilar TH500 tone.

However, I call the TH500 the 'anti GK' head, and it will be quite a shock to you (big, fat, warm, mid complex, organic relaxed up top). Sometimes we 'think we want a big change and then not so much when we realize it'.

Even the MB500 will be a bit different for you than the 400RB... MUCH more deep low end, and a much more extended, sizzly treble response.

Both very nice. You would feel a bit more at home with the MB500, but it would still be a significant change in absolute low end and that classic 400RB GK grind moved up to a higher frequency level to my ear. The MBFusion500 might be a nice way to split the difference a bit. IMO

That's right. If you play through both amps, it will be an easy decision for you, since the amps are very different from each other tone-wise. I own both the MB800 and TH500. My preference in tone is clean and modern, so the MB800 is my main amp. I recently did a sub gig in which we played a lot of Beatles and Beach Boys. For that, I used the TH500 to get more of a vintage tone.

So if clean and modern (the way Ken described it) is your bag, the MB500 is the way to go. If you like a thicker, more vintage tone, the TH500 nails it.

[Greevus]

I'm a GK guy all the way, over 20 years. i tried selling out to SVT Classic, Orange Terror, SWR, Eden, Carvin, Peavey, etc. I keep coming back to GKs for what they ARE. not knocking any other amp makers either. choose what you like. i just wanted to throw in that GKs are just a one of a kind in the middy growly grind and you will notice how much you MISS IT.

I would try that other amp before investing.

Based on what you said you wanted, I would try an older GK800RB. it's 300 watts at 4 ohms and rather mighty. I played 400RBs and MB250/500s the most, and the jump is more drastic between these two.
The 800RB at 4 ohms is versatile to me. It sounds good through 15", 2 x 15", and my 8 x10". it can be clean or growly like the 400RBs.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Greevus

I'm a GK guy all the way, over 20 years. i tried selling out to SVT Classic, Orange Terror, SWR, Eden, Carvin, Peavey, etc. I keep coming back to GKs for what they ARE. not knocking any other amp makers either. choose what you like. i just wanted to throw in that GKs are just a one of a kind in the middy growly grind and you will notice how much you MISS IT.

I would try that other amp before investing.

Based on what you said you wanted, I would try an older GK800RB. it's 300 watts at 4 ohms and rather mighty. I played 400RBs and MB250/500s the most, and the jump is more drastic between these two.
The 800RB at 4 ohms is versatile to me. It sounds good through 15", 2 x 15", and my 8 x10". it can be clean or growly like the 400RBs.

The OP purchased an MBFusion500, which is why we are taking the thread a bit OT, since the comparison of these heads and other lightweight models is still interesting to many.

[socialleper]

There's a lot of good information here that matches my feelings about the two heads. The GK is more modern sounding and the Aguilar is a little more vintage, as you would expect.
The GK heads are much more affordable than the Aguilar, as well has having a much more aggressive sound profile. The Aguilar is a little more polite and has a freq sweep for the mids, which I love. I think the controls for the TH500 were also a little easier to understand. Tend tend not to like amp overdrive, I prefer pedals for that, so I can't speak to that.

The suggestion about using a Tone Hammer pedal through the effects loop is also a great suggestion. I did this in a moment of buyers remorse, it's a very good comparison since I believe they use the same tone circuit.

Both needed more headroom in the lows for my 5 string, the signal was breaking up too much at too low a volume for my taste. Both of them started farting when I played the B on my Warwick $$ with the gain and volume at about 50%. I decided to go with more wattage and split the tonal difference by picking up a Shuttle 9.0 on clearance.

I'd say the deciding factor is what you intent to play with it and how deep your pockets are. Both are quality pieces of equipment that do what they advertise. If you have the money for the TH500, you might be happier with more headroom from a MB800, plus the controls are back lit on that model. If you want vintage tone, the Aguilar is really the way to go.

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by iualum

So where would the Streamliner 900 fit into this equation?

The TH is like Buford Pusser swinging a 2x4. The GK is like King Arthur with a sword. The Streamliner is like being in a pillow fight with a bunch of sorority girls in their underwear.

[NKBassman]

Originally Posted by nutdog

The TH is like Buford Pusser swinging a 2x4. The GK is like King Arthur with a sword. The Streamliner is like being in a pillow fight with a bunch of sorority girls in their underwear.

Now I'm GASing for a Streamliner for some reason...

[husky123]

Originally Posted by nutdog

The TH is like Buford Pusser swinging a 2x4. The GK is like King Arthur with a sword. The Streamliner is like being in a pillow fight with a bunch of sorority girls in their underwear.

That. Was. Awesome.

[SpinyNorman]

Originally Posted by nutdog

The TH is like Buford Pusser swinging a 2x4. The GK is like King Arthur with a sword. The Streamliner is like being in a pillow fight with a bunch of sorority girls in their underwear.

Hmmm. Anyone know where I can pick up a cheap Streamliner? I have a 2x4, and a sword, but one can never really feel safe without a clan of panty-clad sorority girls.

[::::BASSIST::::]

[gypsyfireman]

well i'm happy to say that this thread has not only been very informative, but pretty damn entertaining!

and for whatever reason, i totally get these analogies...well played!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by husky123

That. Was. Awesome.

+1 Sums it up darn well! I was trying to extend his wonderful analogies to the Markbass LMIII, but all I could come up with is Buford Pusser swinging a 2 by 2 and wearing panties. That didn't seem to hold up as well.