GK Neo 112 II crapping out

bass4u · #1 12-31-2010, 01:54 PM

I'm using a GK MB500 and two GK Neo 112 II cabinets. A friend came over today with his new 5 string bass (passive). We were playing through the GK rig and the speakers were farting out if you hit the B and E strings with a sharp attack. The low mid and bass knobs were at 10 o'clock, master at 3 o'clock and gain at 11 o'clock.

Are my speakers/amp toast or is it just that the GK cabinets can't handle a 5 string? The GK rig is under 6 months old and I've never really pushed the amp/speakers hard. If you played without the limiter engaged the amp would shut down.

funkybassinator · #2 12-31-2010, 01:56 PM

Hey, listen up, cab manufacturers! Rant coming!
courtesy of JimmyM

farting out is just a warning that if you drive the magnets harder, they will tear the cone. If it still sounds normal then it's fine.

bass4u · #3 12-31-2010, 02:09 PM

So I guess the GK MB500 and the two GK Neo112 II are not a good match or maybe it's the amp? It's the first piece of GK gear I've ever owned, maybe the last. I used to have a Markbass LM II and two Markbass NYC 112 cabinets and could never make it fart out. I just didn't like the Markbass piezos and rear ported cabinets. Maybe I should have kept the Markbass rig.

craig.p · #4 01-01-2011, 05:47 AM

I don't know boo about Markbass, but I'm wondering if you're actually sending more bass energy to the speakers than you believe you are, despite your tone settings, since GK amps tend to be voiced thick+bassy.

In general, hitting a twelve with a 51 Hz -3dB point in a reflex cab (steep roll-off) with 250 watts of five-string signal and expecting it to maintain its composure lands perilously close to over-expecting. If the Markbass kit was able to pull it off at the same audible volume and at the same audible tone, then maybe that cab was tuned in a way that provided better cone support down in B-string land, and/or the Markbass drivers were capable of higher excursion.

Could also be the G-K cabs are more efficient. You said you couldn't break up the Markbass cabs, but you can break up the G-K cabs. The crucial piece missing in that observation: At identical volumes, using identical frequency spectrums, and measured with an SPL meter. But you have no way of establishing this.

I think the question that needs to be answered is whether the G-K kit will satisfy the requirements of the jobs you plan to use it for. It doesn't really matter if things fart out if the jobs won't ever call for those volume levels. If you don't believe the G-K kit will get the job done on stage, though, then there's more than one way out of this.

Slowgypsy · #5 01-01-2011, 07:20 AM

Something's not right. I own/use (2) GK Neo 112's as well as (2) GK Neo 212's. Although my amp is a GK RB 700 II. I'm not an expert on the GK amp you have... and I'm sure someone with more experience with that amp will chime in.... but something's not right. GK gear can more than handle any 5-string thrown at it.

bass4u · #6 01-01-2011, 07:22 AM

craig.p -thanks for the response. The Markbass cabinet even though it is smaller than the GK cabinet could produce more low end and more volume. To see what the Markbass cabinet would do, I one day boosted a tremendous amount of bass and volume to see when the cabinet would crap out. It never did. The LM II amp just stopped producing an increase in volume. The Markbass cabinet is rated at 400 watts vs the GK 300 watts.

One observation with the GK rig was that when engaging the "G.I.V.E" circuit maxxed out, I did not hear the "farting" sound of the GK cabinets. This circuit adds a lot of midrange, don't know if it cuts low end.

One of the bands I play in can get fairly loud at times and I need to have the equipment to get there. One of the other bands I play in has asked me to start using a 5 string for the type of material we are doing, hence the reason for asking my friend to bring over his 5 string to check out the GK rig.

Just when I thought I was done with amplification/speakers for awhile

Anyone have any suggestions on small compact cabinets that can handle a 500 watt amp using a 5 string?

bass4u · #7 01-01-2011, 07:47 AM

[quote=Slowgypsy;10210867 GK gear can more than handle any 5-string thrown at it.[/QUOTE]

I am hoping that is the case. Wondering if the amp is the issue. The first MB500 I got from GK was dead right out of the box. GK customer support was exceptional and sent a new MB500 to me immediately. Unfortunately I don't have another amp to verify if it is an amp/cabinet issue.

AverageWhiteBassist · #8 01-01-2011, 07:50 AM

How about the basses' tone settings? If the bass was too high on the bass, that could be a possibility, especially if it is a high output bass.

bass4u · #9 01-01-2011, 07:58 AM

The bass used was a passive Fender 5 string with the tone knob rolled about halfway down. The Lo Mid and Bass controls on the amp were at 10 o'clock which I guess is cutting tone.

4Mal · #10 01-01-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass4u

I'm using a GK MB500 and two GK Neo 112 II cabinets. A friend came over today with his new 5 string bass (passive). We were playing through the GK rig and the speakers were farting out if you hit the B and E strings with a sharp attack. The low mid and bass knobs were at 10 o'clock, master at 3 o'clock and gain at 11 o'clock.

Are my speakers/amp toast or is it just that the GK cabinets can't handle a 5 string? The GK rig is under 6 months old and I've never really pushed the amp/speakers hard. If you played without the limiter engaged the amp would shut down.

Dude - on my MB2-500 and fEarful - that would be louder than I normally push at gig volume when I do the classic rock & blues thing. Maybe you should try to play within reasonable expectations for a small rig ... just sayin ...

and where was the Contour set ?

And I · #11 01-01-2011, 11:29 AM

i agree with 4Mal. you are running this thing pretty hot. and if the contour knob is past 10 o'clock you are adding a lot of very-low-end EQ, and while i think the neo 112 II handles my low B pretty well, ours is not a rig made for slamming on the low B...

i have an mb500 and a 112 neo II, and i ran it with another cab (a markbass 151 actually) last night at a gig. i filled a medium sized club (huge bass felt even in the back of the room) with this rig last night with the gain at 11 o'clock and the master at 1 o'clock. turn the master down if it's farting out. if you really need to be louder than that with this rig and you play real hard on the low notes, you probably need PA support.

**nostatic** · #12 01-01-2011, 02:03 PM

master at 3 o'clock?!?

I played a gig last night - 5 piece band and admittedly it was a low volume show but my master was at 8 o'clock.

jza57 · #13 01-01-2011, 02:27 PM

One thing I have learned from playing 5string for many years is that the output of the low B string usually has more signal output than the rest of the strings . Something I do is run the 5string though a mixer or effect unit that uses either a meter or led's for reading output . I plug in the bass and set a moderate level and play a whole note on each string to physically see the output . if the B string is too hot , you need to adjust the pickup height . Simple , but somehow most bass setups allow for a set clearance for space between pickup and strings and most times it doesn't work . This problem never seems to surface for players that always use a large gig rig live because large speaker boxes take the peak signal better .
Do some home recording and you will see what I mean .
This is just one possibility as to the problem . I owned the GK Neo 12" first generation but always used a pair .
Hope this helps .

bass4u · #14 01-01-2011, 02:34 PM

I never have used the contour control and use two GK Neo 112s.
The speaker farting only happened on the B string. This a passive bass I was using and agree that I think the B string has too much output for the amp to handle. I'm going to try and experiment and use a VT Deluxe into the efx return of the amp to see if this makes a difference.

1954bassman · #15 01-01-2011, 02:50 PM

I can add a little of my own exprience with a GK neo 112 II cabinet. I tried one with my Eden WT330 rig. First, with a 11o coax, Eden D112XLT, and the GK. Not a good match-up, as I could not hear the GK cab standing in front of all three of them. Second, the GK cab by itself, which was no match compared to the D112XLT by itself. I do not recall the GK cab 'farting' out, but I do remember it was no match tone-wise for the Eden. Most of this opinion is probably due to my ears being used to the Eden sound.

That said, I have always like GK amps, and their customer service is really good. I personally have dealt with them twice. Customer service is really good, but I cannot say the same for their actual service dept.

I have heard negative comments about Eden's CS and service dept, but in the 10+ years of owning Eden gear, I have never had a failure.

I would also agree with the others, a (2) 112 rig is small-ish. For a really load gig, you might need to look at a (4) 112 rig.

bass4u · #16 01-01-2011, 03:13 PM

I'm thinking the GK Neo 112 is just not as good as other 112 cabinets. Like I stated before the two Markbass 112 cabinets performed very well using them in the same situations with the bands I play in although I never played a 5 string through them.

And I · #17 01-01-2011, 03:29 PM

the markbass cabs probably are rated at 400W (all of their 112s that i've seen are 400W), the GKs are rated at 300W. a markbass is probably going to cost $150 more too.

that these cabs are "not as good" as other 112s out there in their price range is not the prevailing opinion of most of those who've tried them. it seems to me this type of rig is just not what you need. if you want balls-to-the-wall volume and you really dig into the low notes, a couple 410s or an 810 would do you much better.

Crabby · #18 01-01-2011, 07:47 PM

Any chance the farting you heard was the pre amp clipping? I have an MB500 and have to tweek the input gain so that my Stingray's don't distort when hitting hard notes or going down low. If you had the low end boosted on the bass at all it could easily clip the input of the amp which sounds a lot like farting or bad distortion. Just a thought.

bass4u · #19 01-02-2011, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crabby

Any chance the farting you heard was the pre amp clipping?

I'm wondering if that is what is happening. When the speakers are farting out it isn't at crazy volume levels either. It has to do with how hard you hit the B string.

I've been running the main volume per GK's instructions. Turn the master to 3 o'clock and use the gain knob as your main volume control. (I had that at 10-11 o'clock).

I need to borrow another amp so I can determine if it is the amp or cabinets.

bass4u · #20 01-02-2011, 06:02 PM

Well I tried the GK amp and the same bass through a Peavey PR15 Neo Pa cabinet (plastic cabinet). I disabled the horn and pushed the amp harder than I was pushing the GK cabinets. The single 15 in speaker in the Peavey cabinet didn't fart out at all with the 5 string low B. The speaker actually sounded surprisingly good considering it was a Peavey. Either the Gk Neo 112 cabinets have a problem or they aren't going to meet my needs. Time to start looking for small, lightweight cabinets that can handle a low B string easily.