GK Question

jackajesusfreak · #1 09-25-2011, 12:14 PM

I just got an MB210 from a fellow TBer. I have no clue about extension cabs. Which GK extension cab goes with this combo?
Jack

**B-string** · #2 09-25-2011, 12:19 PM

These are the cabs made to match Welcome to Gallien-Krueger: Power to Groove
Any 8 ohm cab will work great.

jackajesusfreak · #3 09-25-2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

These are the cabs made to match Welcome to Gallien-Krueger: Power to Groove
Any 8 ohm cab will work great.

B string,
What cab would give me the best output and balanced sound with the 210? An 210?
Jack

**B-string** · #4 09-25-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

B string,
What cab would give me the best output and balanced sound with the 210? An 210?
Jack

Best output and least phase problems would be the 8 ohm 410. You would be playing a 610

puremusic · #5 09-25-2011, 12:43 PM

I used a mbe 115 with and sometimes a 4x10 and it was powerful either way.

jackajesusfreak · #6 09-25-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puremusic

I used a mbe 115 with and sometimes a 4x10 and it was powerful either way.

Am I understanding it right that when you use extension cab you get the full 500 watt output from the MB210 and no more than that whatever size extension you use? So, in essence with th cab you increase output to 500 and add whatever size speakers are in the cab?

**B-string** · #7 09-25-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

Am I understanding it right that when you use extension cab you get the full 500 watt output from the MB210 and no more than that whatever size extension you use? So, in essence with th cab you increase output to 500 and add whatever size speakers are in the cab?

That is correct. The amp puts out the power, 500watts into a 4 ohm load be it one speaker or 100. The more speaker area the greater the sound (up to a point).

Govier966 · #8 09-25-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

I just got an MB210 from a fellow TBer. I have no clue about extension cabs. Which GK extension cab goes with this combo?
Jack

I have a mbe 212 and i really like it, but i feel like for the least phase problems its best to get an mbe 210.

jackajesusfreak · #9 09-25-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Govier966

I have a mbe 212 and i really like it, but i feel like for the least phase problems its best to get an mbe 210.

Grover and B you both mention phase problems. In layman's terms, please explain what that means? Thanks.
Jack

Also Grover, with the extension cab, what size venue are you playing in? I play in a small church and the MB210 alone is more than enough, but since I hd the ext feature with the 20, I wanted to get n ext cb in case we ever gets gigs outside or in large venues without systems to run through.

Govier966 · #10 09-25-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

Grover and B you both mention phase problems. In layman's terms, please explain what that means? Thanks.
Jack

Also Grover, with the extension cab, what size venue are you playing in? I play in a small church and the MB210 alone is more than enough, but since I hd the ext feature with the 20, I wanted to get n ext cb in case we ever gets gigs outside or in large venues without systems to run through.

Phase issues occur when you have two cabs where the cones are different sizes or the speakers move in opposite directions. This causes some frequencies to be amplified and others to be canceled out, it can result in a very unpleasant sound but it can also yield good tones to some. If you match a pair of cabs your tone will remain the same but you will get more volume and most likely more bass. I use the 2X12 cab by itself with a 400rb so its not super loud but it matches up against two loud fender amps and a hard hitting drummer.

**B-string** · #11 09-25-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

Grover and B you both mention phase problems. In layman's terms, please explain what that means? Thanks.
Jack

Also Grover, with the extension cab, what size venue are you playing in? I play in a small church and the MB210 alone is more than enough, but since I hd the ext feature with the 20, I wanted to get n ext cb in case we ever gets gigs outside or in large venues without systems to run through.

That is a tall order? The same size speaker cones all produce sound with the same dispersion pattern. If you mix different size cones there can be peaks (when the phase matches) and dips (when they are out of phase and cancel). Even a single note struck on a stringed instrument has many different overtones (frequencies) that can be canceled by out of phase signals.

The MB212 is at 4 ohms already and you can't use an extention speaker. The MBE212 is a speaker cab not a combo.

RickenBoogie · #12 09-25-2011, 03:25 PM

To the op, a matched 2x10 would give you the best results, and a 500 watt 4x10 rig. Though it is true, ANY 8 ohm cab will work, and some make work really well, but the only SURE bet is a matched 2x10.

jackajesusfreak · #13 09-27-2011, 11:53 AM

Hey guys, I guess it would NOT be a good idea to mix brands??? In other words go with a non GK cab?
Jack

scottfeldstein · #14 09-27-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

To the op, a matched 2x10 would give you the best results, and a 500 watt 4x10 rig. Though it is true, ANY 8 ohm cab will work, and some make work really well, but the only SURE bet is a matched 2x10.

+1

I don't agree with some others who recommend a 4x10. That 4x10 cab would be limited by how much of the available 250w you can push at the built-in 2 10s. That is, you're never going to be able to give the 4x10 cab as much as it can handle. You'll be limited to giving it what the built-in speakers can handle. Seems like a waste of money and weight to me.

Any 8 ohm cab will "work." And if you get a deal on something, why not go for it? But if you're truly interested in the most optimal choice, get the 8 ohm 2x10 MBE cab. It's the exact match for that amp.

**B-string** · #15 09-27-2011, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

+1

I don't agree with some others who recommend a 4x10. That 4x10 cab would be limited by how much of the available 250w you can push at the built-in 2 10s. That is, you're never going to be able to give the 4x10 cab as much as it can handle. You'll be limited to giving it what the built-in speakers can handle. Seems like a waste of money and weight to me.

Any 8 ohm cab will "work." And if you get a deal on something, why not go for it? But if you're truly interested in the most optimal choice, get the 8 ohm 2x10 MBE cab. It's the exact match for that amp.

Under most configs I agree, but in this case the internal 210 is now receiving 100 watts less so the only thing "limiting" either cab is the amp's output power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

Hey guys, I guess it would NOT be a good idea to mix brands??? In other words go with a non GK cab?
Jack

Mixing brands can work well.....or not. Just make sure it is 8 ohms when you try it.

jackajesusfreak · #16 09-27-2011, 08:43 PM

From what I am hearing the safest move would be to save up and get a 210MBE. I see a lot of new 210 cabs cheaper but you always run the risk of incompatibility.

scottfeldstein · #17 09-27-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

Under most configs I agree, but in this case the internal 210 is now receiving 100 watts less so the only thing "limiting" either cab is the amp's output power.

Not to drag this off into the weeds, but I really don't know what you're talking about. If you plug in an 8 ohm 4x10 cab, that cab is going to receive half of the 500w the amp can deliver (at 4 ohms). That's 250w to the 4x10 cab.

And 250w to the internal 2x10 as well.

A 4x10 cab by itself might actually handle, say, cranking the volume knob up to noon and delivering 200w (50w a speaker). But you'll never get to noon. The internal two 10s (receiving 100w each) are going to exceed max excursion and it's fart city.

The numbers are hypothetical. I just made them up. But the ratios aren't hypothetical. The 4x10 cab could take more watts, a higher twist of the volume knob, than the internal speakers will let you deliver.

This, actually, is part of the reason I dumped the MB210. I realized I had to get the 210MBE to match it and the pair weren't loud enough for my loudest application. I sold them both off, swore off combos and got an MB500 and a Neo 212. (Hoping for a second 212 in the near future.)

**B-string** · #18 09-27-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfeldstein

Not to drag this off into the weeds, but I really don't know what you're talking about. If you plug in an 8 ohm 4x10 cab, that cab is going to receive half of the 500w the amp can deliver (at 4 ohms). That's 250w to the 4x10 cab.

And 250w to the internal 2x10 as well.

A 4x10 cab by itself might actually handle, say, cranking the volume knob up to noon and delivering 200w (50w a speaker). But you'll never get to noon. The internal two 10s (receiving 100w each) are going to exceed max excursion and it's fart city.

The numbers are hypothetical. I just made them up. But the ratios aren't hypothetical. The 4x10 cab could take more watts, a higher twist of the volume knob, than the internal speakers will let you deliver.

This, actually, is part of the reason I dumped the MB210. I realized I had to get the 210MBE to match it and the pair weren't loud enough for my loudest application. I sold them both off, swore off combos and got an MB500 and a Neo 212. (Hoping for a second 212 in the near future.)

The MB210 and MB212 use a stripped down and reconfigued MB500 head. You will be splitting 500 watts into two 600 watt NEO 212 cabs. Thats 250 watts into each 600 watt cab. So what don't you understand?
More speaker area equals more sound from the same watt input. Be that 2 210, 210 + 410 or 2 212.

jackajesusfreak · #19 09-27-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-string

The MB210 and MB212 use a stripped down and reconfigued MB500 head. You will be splitting 500 watts into two 600 watt NEO 212 cabs. Thats 250 watts into each 600 watt cab. So what don't you understand?
More speaker area equals more sound from the same watt input. Be that 2 210, 210 + 410 or 2 212.

So B, let me see if I understand. My MB210 right now is a 500 watt amp, but I'm not using the whole 500 unless I run an extension cab to it?
So with a 210MBE I would be using the whole 500? You mentioned 600 watts. Is it possible to get more than 500 watts even though the amp itself is rated 500?
Also what about these Seismic cabinets? Going on the 'you get what you pay for' philosophy, they are probably junk?
Thanks again for teaching me all of this.
Jack

Govier966 · #20 09-27-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackajesusfreak

So B, let me see if I understand. My MB210 right now is a 500 watt amp, but I'm not using the whole 500 unless I run an extension cab to it?
So with a 210MBE I would be using the whole 500? You mentioned 600 watts. Is it possible to get more than 500 watts even though the amp itself is rated 500?
Also what about these Seismic cabinets? Going on the 'you get what you pay for' philosophy, they are probably junk?
Thanks again for teaching me all of this.
Jack

seismic cabs supposedly are made of MDF and therefore cannot withhold the test of time. I dont know how they sound but my band may get a pair of their PA speakers as they would remain stationary and we need more volume for the vocals. I will let you know how they sound if we get a set.