GK RB 700 II with Neo 112 II : Bi-Amp or No ?

jnewmark · #1 06-07-2011, 04:52 PM

I have had a GK RB 700 II for years and have always used it full range with my non GK cabs. But, recently I picked a GK Neo 112 II cab that has the bi-amp option with GK heads. Any advantage to bi-amping this cab with the RB 700 ? Also, what exactly does the woofer/ tweeter hi-cut do ? Playing the cab full range, I cannot really crank the volume too much before farting out the woofer, unless I do the Master up full and keep volume around 9 or 10. Boost not much more than 9, and EQ pretty much flat. The tweeter is loud as hell, and I practically have the treble down to 9 o'clock. Still, alot of clank with my MIA Fender 4 string Jazz. Would bi-amping control this better ? Any other thoughts you might have with this head/cab combo would be welcomed.

Ogge · #2 06-08-2011, 01:59 AM

In this owners manuel you get it all explained!

http://www.gallien-krueger.com/manua...I_700RB-II.pdf

About the tweeter, even if you use full range you can still adjust the tweeter on the back of the cab. If you don't like it I suggest you simply turn it down.=) One advantage with bi-amping is that you could adjust the tweeter with the tweeter knob on the front of the amp instead of on the back of the cab.

Cheers!

ljazz · #3 06-08-2011, 03:11 AM

The woofer hi-cut is what will get the HMS (biamp) going. The tweeter hi-cut, memory serving, will cut highs over 10k. I run with both engaged.

I love the HMS. It's very nice being able to adjust from the front of the amp, and not having to crawl around to the back of the cab. Typically, the tweeter volume, for me, doesn't get much over 10:00.

Running the master up high, with a lower volume setting on the pre is pretty much how I do it. However, I always have the boost up a bit higher..... like 3:00, and the master at noon (min). As I come up on the master, I roll off the boost a touch. I'd suggest keeping your boost up to at least noon, and come down on the master.

Just remember, the volume knob is actually preamp gain. Having that up much past noon will cause clipping at the pre (no light for that..... the clip light is at the input, before the volume control). Running between 8 and 11 o'clock is par for the course. If you have been running the pre hotter than that, then you may have an explanation for the farting.

georgestrings · #4 06-08-2011, 04:38 AM

I would imagine that amp could easily overpower ANY 112 - I would keep that in mind... If you're getting too much horn, I would definitely take advantage of the HMS system to dial back the horn - but more importantly, I'd get another 112 before you blow that one up...

- georgestrings

Hopkins · #5 06-08-2011, 04:52 AM

I have a 700rbII and a 410 neo. I keep the horn off, to my ears it sounds much better.

jnewmark · #6 06-08-2011, 05:24 AM

Thanks for the replies. So, if bi-amping, where do you set the tweeter knob on the back, or does'nt come into play at all ? I had a feeling the RB700 II would be a little too much for this cab, even at 8 ohms. I assume a standard , 4 conductor speakon is what I need to bi-amp, or should it be wired differently for the GK system ?

lbwdog · #7 06-08-2011, 07:12 AM

Johnny, I had a Neo 112 (Series I) with my 700RB II and could not get anywhere near gig volume before fartation. The tone was very nice, but, just in my dining room, couldn't handle any power.
Yes, standard wired four conductor Speakon is required for HMS.

Woofer Hi Cut lets you choose whether to let the woofer run totally full-range, or cut(roll) it off at a specific frequency.

I can't remember exactly, but I think it takes the attenuator out of the circuit when the cab is switched to "bi-amp).

jnewmark · #8 06-08-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

Johnny, I had a Neo 112 (Series I) with my 700RB II and could not get anywhere near gig volume before fartation. The tone was very nice, but, just in my dining room, couldn't handle any power.
Yes, standard wired four conductor Speakon is required for HMS.

Woofer Hi Cut lets you choose whether to let the woofer run totally full-range, or cut(roll) it off at a specific frequency.

I can't remember exactly, but I think it takes the attenuator out of the circuit when the cab is switched to "bi-amp).

Hey Eric, I was hoping you would chime in. I thought this cab might be good for my Blues band gigs, but probably gonna need another one.

lbwdog · #9 06-08-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Hey Eric, I was hoping you would chime in. I thought this cab might be good for my Blues band gigs, but probably gonna need another one.

At Least!

tombowlus · #10 06-08-2011, 09:59 AM

I prefer to use the bi-amp setup with compatible GK cabs. One of the bigger advantages, to my way of thinking, is keeping the horn nice and clean if you start to push the amp a bit. Of course, with a single Neo112-II, you are going to be hitting the excursion limits of the cab before you hit the rails on the 700RB-II, so this may not be a factor. Of course, if you add a second Neo112-II or a Neo212-II to the mix, this may become relevant.

Tom.

**Horny Toad** · #11 06-08-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

....I think it takes the attenuator out of the circuit when the cab is switched to "bi-amp).

That's correct. I use the HMS with my 1001RB-II and two NEO 115-III's and it works like a charm.

ljazz · #12 06-09-2011, 03:26 AM

I've been running my 112 with the 700rbII without issues for 3 years now..... no issues, and I'm not easy on the cab. I'm at grind levels all the time with it. In most of my gig situations, it keeps up just fine. If I can get away with more cabinet, the I take the 212.

BTW, I'd opt for a 212 instead of another 112. I think you get a bit more versatility, and the ability to really hit the rails without pushing the full 480 watts. Running both the 112 and the 212 on larger stages and outdoors yields excellent results!

jnewmark · #13 06-09-2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljazz

I've been running my 112 with the 700rbII without issues for 3 years now..... no issues, and I'm not easy on the cab. I'm at grind levels all the time with it. In most of my gig situations, it keeps up just fine. If I can get away with more cabinet, the I take the 212.

BTW, I'd opt for a 212 instead of another 112. I think you get a bit more versatility, and the ability to really hit the rails without pushing the full 480 watts. Running both the 112 and the 212 on larger stages and outdoors yields excellent results!

I always find it puzzling when one player says it could not get up to gig volume, while another says it keeps up just fine, with the same rig ! I guess it just depends on how loud the gig needs to be ? Also, I assume you are using the 8 ohm 212 with the 112, to get a 4 ohm load with the RB 700 ? How does that effect the cabs when bi-amping ?

jnewmark · #14 06-09-2011, 06:41 PM

Well, i got a 4 pole speakon and bi-amped the Neo 112 II with the RB700 II. Frankly, did'nt hear a whole lot of difference. If anything, the tone was a little smoother sounding biamped, but, other than that, not much to say, other than with the woofer volume turned all the way down, the tweeter is barely audible, even when turned up all the way, which seemed odd to me. Don't see what the big deal is about this option, or why GK puts it on every cab.

ljazz · #15 06-10-2011, 02:59 AM

With your bass, and the cf at 5k, it shouldn't be all that audible.

The key with the HMS lies in the fact that the boost doesn't affect anything over the 5k, and that it's all adjustable from the front of your amp. I guess I was a little bit puzzled as well when I first started using it....... but after getting used to it, I find it extremely useful.

lbwdog · #16 06-10-2011, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Well, i got a 4 pole speakon and bi-amped the Neo 112 II with the RB700 II. Frankly, did'nt hear a whole lot of difference. If anything, the tone was a little smoother sounding biamped, but, other than that, not much to say, other than with the woofer volume turned all the way down, the tweeter is barely audible, even when turned up all the way, which seemed odd to me. Don't see what the big deal is about this option, or why GK puts it on every cab.

J., I am of the same opinion, and did the very same as you when I had mine. I turned my woofer all the way down just to hear what the tweeter was doing. At first, the lack of audible signal was surprising, then I realized that 5K is really an extremely high frequency (only two octaves below the accepted limit of human hearing). Not present at all on the lower strings, and barely there on the highest notes, and then sounding like a very weak, broken, tiny transistor radio from the sixties. Really not much of anything but string noise.

Well, I do know that super high frequencies, when coupled with the mids and lows, give an overall sheen to normal program material, but IMHO, for bass guitar, 5K is so high that it's not really useful, especially with my tone profile. Based on our previous conversations, we share similar tastes, so I can see where you're coming from. I would think the system would be much more effective if the crossover point was lowered even a half octave or so. I have tons of respect for Bob Gallien, but I find this system is virtually no help for me. The 700 is a very fine amp though, as is every other G-K I've owned or played.

jnewmark · #17 06-10-2011, 05:56 AM

^ Yeah, Eric, gotta say I'm a little disappointed, I was expecting something alot different. When I read about the 5K, I thought, wow, that's awfully high for bass. Now I'm wondering what exactly the tweeter gets when you DON'T bi-amp ? Is it just high passed to 5K or something else ? It seems like when you turn the tweeter up from the back of the cab, it's alot more prominent in the sound then when you control from the front when bi-amping. Looks like it's full range for me ! Would actually like to try this cab with the 212 Neo II, for a 312 attack with the RB 700 II.

lbwdog · #18 06-10-2011, 06:11 AM

i could be wrong but i think the passive crossover is also 5K.

ljazz · #19 06-11-2011, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

^ It seems like when you turn the tweeter up from the back of the cab, it's alot more prominent in the sound then when you control from the front when bi-amping. Looks like it's full range for me ! Would actually like to try this cab with the 212 Neo II, for a 312 attack with the RB 700 II.

When I first started using mine, I felt the same. But I kept at it. I started out cranking the tweeter volume..... I think I was overcompensating for not being able to really hear it by itself...... but after some comments from bandmates, I started rolling it back. It does make a difference.

And man, the 312 kills! It will definitely make your rig a versatile machine.

tombowlus · #20 06-13-2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Don't see what the big deal is about this option, or why GK puts it on every cab.

I wasn't really too impressed with this option, either, until I started playing around with the 700RB-II getting pushed close to, or a little beyond, the rails of the main amplifier. This results in a tone which I (and many others) find pleasing through the drivers, but which sounds quite bad, IMHO, through the tweeter. Using the HMS allows me to push the drivers as hard as I want, but keep the tweeter nice and clean. The first time I did this was a real eye opener, and I was an immediate convert.

However, if you don't typically push the amp very loud, and you always keep a clean tone through both drivers and tweeter, then yes, this may not be a significant option for you.

Tom.