GK Strife. Need Opinions

[IPYF]

Hi all.

I have a query for anyone who may know anything about the GK RBX 115 Cabinet as I am having awful troubles with it.

I currently run a Spector active bass tuned to C into a GK1001RBII. I have this running into a 1048H Trace Elliot 410 rated at 300w rms and the GK RBX 115 which is rated at 400w. Both cabs are 8ohm. I have the Trace connected via 1/4 inch and the GK running through a 4pt Speakon.

Now the problem is that the GK cab keeps dying. I've only had it for a month (in terms of actual ownership time) but I've had 2 hours play time out of it between services. The same night I bought it it went out like a light. I took it back to the shop and they eyed me suspiciously but sent it back for warranty service. It came back from the GK warranty repairer with "Woofer Replaced. No Charge" stuck to a label on the grill.

I took it to rehearsal last monday and it was fine. I thought I was sorted. This Monday it lasted 45mins and went out like a light again. Same problem exactly. Dead speaker.

I'm thoroughly confused and I'm dreading going back to the shop because they're probably at the point now where they're not going to believe that I'm not doing something wrong. I'm not even positive that I'm not but I honestly wouldn't know what it would be. I have had no gear issues in almost 6 years of playing and now it seems like I'm blowing something up every time I run up my amp.

I'm aware that the RBX is a cheap cab but I don't have a lot of money and it was only bought to replace my old Behringer 115 which lasted 6 years before it wore out. I know that running 750w of amp through 700w of cab is not ideal but I never run the amp at more than 45% of its capacity. I thought that maybe the low wattage rating on the RBX would mean that it lasted 3 years rather than 10 and for $400 I could live with this.

Can anyone help? I need advice as to whether I should try and get them to fix this cab again or just take it back because it's defective or unsuitable.

[skychief]

i think your GK 115 cab is drawing too much power and blowing out the voice coil in the driver.

You really shouldnt mix different type cabs, as the power draw is not evenly shared by the cabs/drivers.

[Windreaper]

The 115RBX is unlikely to be defective. The fact that you've blown the driver not once but twice would hint that it might not be a good idea to pair those two cabs since the 115RBX obviously cannot keep up with the TE 4x10. Btw, you can have your master volume at 50% and still pull rated output (and more!) from the amp.

[christw]

Power ratings on cabs are a tricky thing.

The 400w rating on that speaker is thermal maximum (and marketing BS) meaning that it can probably take 400w RMS before melting. However, it's physical limitation (xmax) probably lies in the 100-150 w RMS range. To top it off, a 115 is about equivalent to a 210 cab and will be the first to give up under heavy use when paired with a 410. If it's on the bottom of your stack, you probably never even heard it crying while it died, twice...

The 300w rating on the Trace is probably "real world" maximum RMS before the speakers reach their mechanical limits. A matched 410 would be a much better mate to that cab than a 15 that in reality craps out under half as much power load.

How can you say that you've never run the amp at 45% of it's capacity? Volume knobs and EQ settings are no indicative of how much power an amp puts out at any given time, especially with respect to peaks.

[Sneakypete]

Have you tried leaving the 1048 out of the equation then trying the 115 with the Speakon on its own and with the jack cable on its own? Have you tried the 9V battery across the speaker jack test? I think it's possible that you didn't really 'blow' the first driver and the repair tech simply changed it because he couldn't find a fault and there was nothing else to replace. Two new drivers suddenly falling silent without any preceding signs of distress sounds more like a wiring fault to me. Good luck!

[Slowgypsy]

In addition to what everyone else has said.... which is spot on.... how you're eq'ing the amp also has bearing. If you've got bass turned up, boost turned up, active pre amp on your Spector turned up, etc... you're pumping a lot of juice to the speakers, which are the end of the chain. The RB1001 is a monster amp, often treated with less respect than it should be given.

[IPYF]

What I meant was more that I'm not thrashing the cabs from the head. Eq's more or less flat and the boost and master volume are both at about 10 o'clock.

It really just looks like they shouldn't have sold me this cab. The guys at my shop know exactly what I'm running and they told me it would probably be alright when they really should have said by the sound of things "no f**king way". I might have to see if they'll take it back.

It feel like a clod but the reality is that I'm just a player and I know nothing about how the electronic side of things work. I kind of have to trust professionals and the labels on the products.

EDIT: The battery test was the first thing I did. Got nothing.

[will33]

You're using a poor combination of speakers. There's no way that 115 (one voice coil) can keep up with the 410 (4 voice coils). I'm also going to assume you have it at the bottom of the stack like most folks, meaning it's sound is flying past you at knee level and you can't hear it distorting, complaining and eventually dying. If you must use it, at least stack it on top so you can hear it hitting it's limits and back off. Better yet, use the 410 by itself. You'll be able to push it further and likely get just as loud out front. Raise the 410 up or tilt it back some, or get another of the same 410 to stack with it if you need to get louder/hear yourself better. Unless it's some built-in factory defect, I'd say GK has been more than nice about replacing speakers due to user error.

[will33]

Originally Posted by IPYF

What I meant was more that I'm not thrashing the cabs from the head. Eq's more or less flat and the boost and master volume are both at about 10 o'clock.

It really just looks like they shouldn't have sold me this cab. The guys at my shop know exactly what I'm running and they told me it would probably be alright when they really should have said by the sound of things "no f**king way". I might have to see if they'll take it back.

It feel like a clod but the reality is that I'm just a player and I know nothing about how the electronic side of things work. I kind of have to trust professionals and the labels on the products.

EDIT: The battery test was the first thing I did. Got nothing.

Another note, the numbers on your knobs mean nothing, they're just a general guide. Just because you're on 3 out of 10 in NO way means you're sending 30% of the total power to the speakers. Almost every amp I've owned had the entire potential contained within the first half of the dial or had to be turned up a long way to get to useable volume. It has to do with the parts used to build the amp and your output levels/gain structure of everything you have before the amp and in the effects loop, if any.

[christw]

Originally Posted by IPYF

What I meant was more that I'm not thrashing the cabs from the head. Eq's more or less flat and the boost and master volume are both at about 10 o'clock.

Where do you run your preamp? That Spector is probably hot. I used to run my passives with Noon pre, EQ, and boost and adjust with master, never even close to noon. It was usually around 9 o'clock and it could easily kill some lower power cabs. Judging by where my tube amps give out, I had to be pumping 300-400w into my Bag Ends on some of these occasions.

It really just looks like they shouldn't have sold me this cab. The guys at my shop know exactly what I'm running and they told me it would probably be alright when they really should have said by the sound of things "no f**king way". I might have to see if they'll take it back.

If you had a non-bassist selling you the cab, they may well have had no real idea what they were talking about.

It feel like a clod but the reality is that I'm just a player and I know nothing about how the electronic side of things work. I kind of have to trust professionals and the labels on the products.

EDIT: The battery test was the first thing I did. Got nothing.

Don't worry, you're not the first or the last person to come through here with that issue. I've never killed a cab but I've killed a tube amp once with an impedance mismatch.

Oh, and don't trust the guys who are trying to sell you things. If the misinformation comes from the manufacturer, the dealer is selling what he knows, even if it's amp wattage ratings at 5% THD, unrealistic cab power handling, or something else not so kosher. There's a wonderful wealth of information available just on this forum. I've picked up more on this forum than most guys I meet at gear shops know...

[dmusic148]

Yes, too much power for that cab to handle. See if you can get the store to trade it for another matching 4x10. EDIT: I see it's an old Trace unit. Well, you could try it with a GK 4x10. Might work great, certainly better than the 1x15.

[IPYF]

Originally Posted by will33

I'd say GK has been more than nice about replacing speakers due to user error.

Well they could have told me or the guys at my shop. That way I would have been able to write the purchase off as an mistake and then sold the cab on; rather than blowing it up again 2 hours later because nobody thought to give me the right advice. It's completely counterproductive and the attitude that 'you should know better' doesn't really apply here. I just needed a replacement 115 and this is the one I was recommended. I've been more than happy with my GK amp so I figured that getting a GK cab was a no-brainer.

I've only had the Spector since Saturday and I'd only just begun to fiddle with it. Due to the GK's high range I actually had to pull the bass back below halfway on the high and mid Pres. I was pushing the bass though due to the fact that I don't yet have the right gauge strings on the Spector and it was feeling a little trebbly. Before then I used a BTB which was actually a little feistier in the preamp department. The saddest thing is that I only got to play my new bass for an hour before everything went south.

Im pretty sad becuase Ive shopped at this store for about 10 years and they've always had my best interests at heart. This has come as a real surprise.

[christw]

That's unfortunate. I don't think they'd willfully misinform you, especially as a long time customer. Hopefully they'll be understanding and willing to work with you if it was sold to you as a cab that should hold up with your rig.

[Munjibunga]

While you really are trying to blame the guys at the shop, the blown speakers are no one's fault but your own. If you drive the cabinet beyond its capacity, it will fail. That's what you did, and that's what it did. The guys at the shop didn't tell you to crank it until it blows up. You did that on your own. You apparently don't have enough experience to identify the sound of a speaker being overdriven.

Stop blaming the shop.

[Selta]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

While you really are trying to blame the guys at the shop, the blown speakers are no one's fault but your own. If you drive the cabinet beyond its capacity, it will fail. That's what you did, and that's what it did. The guys at the shop didn't tell you to crank it until it blows up. You did that on your own. You apparently don't have enough experience to identify the sound of a speaker being overdriven.

Stop blaming the shop.

Bingo.

[nixdad]

The issue may be that you're running the GK cab in the bi-amp mode, while you're running the Trace Elliot full range. I believe the 4 conductor speakon cable that came with the cab is meant for running the cab bi-amped (as well as having the switch on the cabinet set to bi-amp,) while using a standard speaker cable (or 2 conductor speakon cable) is meant for full range use (switching the cab to full rage as well.)

[IPYF]

Originally Posted by nixdad

The issue may be that you're running the GK cab in the bi-amp mode, while you're running the Trace Elliot full range. I believe the 4 conductor speakon cable that came with the cab is meant for running the cab bi-amped (as well as having the switch on the cabinet set to bi-amp,) while using a standard speaker cable (or 2 conductor speakon cable) is meant for full range use (switching the cab to full rage as well.)

Can you explain how this could be causing the problem?
This is exactly what I'm doing.

I am running with the Bi-amp switched on. I figured that the amp has the 50w Horn amp so I may as well use it. That's why i got the 4pt speakon lead. Because the trace has'nt got speakon its running from the 1/4 in jack.

[will33]

Originally Posted by IPYF

Well they could have told me or the guys at my shop. That way I would have been able to write the purchase off as an mistake and then sold the cab on; rather than blowing it up again 2 hours later because nobody thought to give me the right advice. It's completely counterproductive and the attitude that 'you should know better' doesn't really apply here. I just needed a replacement 115 and this is the one I was recommended. I've been more than happy with my GK amp so I figured that getting a GK cab was a no-brainer.

I've only had the Spector since Saturday and I'd only just begun to fiddle with it. Due to the GK's high range I actually had to pull the bass back below halfway on the high and mid Pres. I was pushing the bass though due to the fact that I don't yet have the right gauge strings on the Spector and it was feeling a little trebbly. Before then I used a BTB which was actually a little feistier in the preamp department. The saddest thing is that I only got to play my new bass for an hour before everything went south.

Im pretty sad becuase Ive shopped at this store for about 10 years and they've always had my best interests at heart. This has come as a real surprise.

If you don't know, you don't know. That doesn't make you a bad person or anything, it just means you don't know. If these guys at the shop recommended this, it means they don't know either, but when they're recommending product and taking money, they'd better know. They're more interested in making sales than helping customers. They may like to think they know, they may like to talk like they know, but they don't know squat, if they did, they wouldn't have recommended this.

None of this absolves you or them from killing speakers. Educate yourself about your equipment and how it works. Then trust yourself to make good decisions. Do NOT, ever, ever, ever listen to a salesman or take their advise on anything, ever. Most of them are simply that, salesman. It doesn't matter if it's a speaker or a toaster or a car. They know absolutely nothing about any of it other than how to sell it. They serve one purpose and one purpose only and that is to separate you from your money, that is all. Educate yourself, then, if you have to, go to a store to buy, not to shop.

That may sound a little harsh towards salesmen but I've found it to be true many, many more times than it's not. When they say "can I help you?", they don't mean they really want to help you, they want to help themselves...to your money. Ask them a technical question and one of two things happen, their eyes glaze over or they start talking out of their ass to the extent I'd rather they turned around and bent over so I can get it straight from the source.

You'll have to excuse the rant. Point is, educate yourself about whatever it is you want, then tell the salesman to leave you the hell alone unless it's to go to the back and get you a new, unopened, never tampered with box of whatever it is you want. Nobody should know what you need better than you do. If you don't know, you shouldn't be opening your wallet.

[kraigo]

Originally Posted by christw

If you had a non-bassist selling you the cab, they may well have had no real idea what they were talking about....
<snip>
Oh, and don't trust the guys who are trying to sell you things. If the misinformation comes from the manufacturer, the dealer is selling what he knows, even if it's amp wattage ratings at 5% THD, unrealistic cab power handling, or something else not so kosher. There's a wonderful wealth of information available just on this forum. I've picked up more on this forum than most guys I meet at gear shops know...

Even if a bassist is selling you the cab, they don't necessarily have a way of knowing what will and won't work. I dread going someplace like Guitar Center because I really don't need some 19 year old giving me advice*. It's often laughable and life really is too short. I hang out here because I can get better information and I've been here long enough to have an idea whose information I trust more.

KO

*This is not to nag on 19 year olds. I know a lot of mature 19 year olds, but no matter what your age it's often more fruitful to listen than to talk.

[IPYF]

The reality is I probably should have gone and drummed up another Trace 4x10. The reason I didn't is because I was used to having a 115 and I've never run 2 4x10's before. The other reason was that if I did that I would essentially have been running 700w of amp into 600w of cab and that doesn't seem sensible to me. Besides the fact that there would be no way for me to know whether I would like the sound.

I simply don't have the money to buy high-end cabs. Maybe one day I could get a Mesa 412 or a Ampeg fridge but that's not going to be any day soon. I just have to work within my means which is what I thought I was doing. Apparently not.

The store which I got the cab from is a specialist bass store with an impeccable reputation. It's not like I just picked it up from some instrument barn. I have always relied on these guys in the past without having any trouble.