Going Ampless

Medford Bassman · #1 09-11-2009, 05:33 PM

So, last night I had rehearsal and I just used my Sansamp BDDI. For the type of music I play, it really sounded good. I mean really good. The band started talking if I really need an amp on stage.

Our FOH is pretty elaborate, I get my own monitor with a custom mix just for me. Half of the time the rooms we play in, the sub bounce back so much, I have more bass than I ever need.

Just trying to get some feedback from those who go ampless.

Mind you, I have a great rig. GB Shuttle 6.0 and NEOX 212T.

THanks for the help!!

RickenBoogie · #2 09-11-2009, 06:03 PM

Lots of folks do it, it's all just a matter of having the stage monitor. Most clubs I play at, don't. If you're carrying your own system, it's not a problem. But if you're like me, relying on whatever the club provides, my bass rig is very important.

JimmyM · #3 09-11-2009, 06:22 PM

Even if I'm using good PA, I still want my sound from a bass amp. Not only do I like the tone way better, but others in the band don't like to have to run my bass in their monitors to hear me. But if you have good PA, you like your sound out of the monitor, and the band likes it as well, then have fun with it.

T-Bird · #4 09-12-2009, 03:37 AM

Hi.

I'm doing just that in todays gig. A really small 3 car garage. I'll be running SVTDI directly to the console.

Our PA isn't anything fancy for the small gigs either, just old Bose 802's (IIRC) and old Peavey bottoms.

I have done that in a problematig large place also. An old concerete walled auditorium isn't the best place for bass amps. I was the regular monitor sound guy there and when I suggested going ampless for the visiting pro FOH guy who only knew me casually, he almost had a fit. After the sound check he was a bit more optimistic, but the gig itself, that made a believer out of him. He said that he'd never heard a better bass sound there, and never had so good balance in FOH there before.

Jimmy is on the point though, the monitors have to be top notch. The monitor engineer also. The thing to remember is that it's not only You and the audience who has to hear the bass, the whole band has to hear you. Otherwise it may well end in a trainwreck if the audience is loud.

Regards
Sam

Medford Bassman · #5 09-12-2009, 06:04 AM

Thanks everyone for the opinions and help. We only have 2 floor monitors in the band, myself and one guitarist. The other guitarist and drummer use in ear monitors and quite frankly they don't hear my bass amp anyway.

You're right about some places the bass amp is a liability because of room dynamics. Some places because of the boom in the room, I had to turn my amp down so low, it was pointless.

I'm going to try it at our next gig and see how it goes. I'll let you know the results.

Esquillama · #6 09-12-2009, 09:37 AM

I've been ampless for a few years now, and I love it.
We run our own sound 98% of the time, so I have it set and know it's going to sound good. It definitely helps with FOH balance. When we aren't on our own equipment, I have had many comments from sound engineers about how nice it is to not have to worry about balancing out the stage volume with FOH.

My guitarist also is ampless so there really isn't much coming off the stage except drums (which are also triggered and run through the monitors).

I wear earplugs when we play, and I find that it helps to eliminate a lot of the ambient sound that muddies up the mix for me. I can hear myself sing better too.

Set up and tear down is now very quick, my whole "rig" fits on my bass stand. Here's a couple pics with my old bass to show you what I mean.

And a closeup:

I hope it works out as well for you as it has for me, good luck!

Medford Bassman · #7 09-12-2009, 10:24 AM

Awesome! Thanks for the support. Your band website looks great. My variety band is based out of Medford, WI not far from you.

chadds · #8 09-12-2009, 10:42 AM

Braless
Strapless
Ampless
Someone's always loosing something...
but it leaves less to the imagination.

GearHeadBassMan · #9 09-12-2009, 11:12 AM

try going ampless for a gig, see how you like it. If it works, then there's one less thing to load in.

dDaddybass · #10 09-12-2009, 11:21 AM

I'm not trying to hijack this, but, is anyone playing through a ampless rig (pre, effects, etc) into a PA, like a Carvin set up w/ LS1503 cabs at practice, then no amp on your gigs? Does that make sense?

nightcityburn · #11 09-12-2009, 11:24 AM

I have done it, and hated it. Usually I couldn't get enough in a monitor and nothing was bouncing back. I will always gig with some sort of rig, I hate IE also.

WayneP · #12 09-12-2009, 11:48 AM

Been ampless for something like 10 years now; not going back. The only time I miss the amp is the occasional gig where there are no subs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Jimmy is on the point though, the monitors have to be top notch. The monitor engineer also.

I got around that by desiging my rack so that I could use my own monitor -i.e., replacing the bass cab with a dedicated stage monitor. I also have it fixed up so that I can blend in a monitor mix in to it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

dDaddybass · #13 09-12-2009, 03:54 PM

ok, so what is a really good monitor for bass?

JimmyM · #14 09-12-2009, 04:22 PM

SVT 810

WayneP · #15 09-12-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dDaddybass

ok, so what is a really good monitor for bass?

I’m sure everyone would have their own preference, but in the past I’ve used Yamaha SM-series monitors, JBL MR-series and even some old Bose speakers (the ones with eight little 5-1/4” speakers). I was pleased with all of them. Sure, they don’t get the bottom end very well, but as Medford noted, if you’re playing behind a system with subs you should be able to get all you need from the them. I typically high-pass the monitor to limit its lows as much as I can stand, which means less conflict with the house system.

A big plus in my book of using a good stage monitor instead of a bass cabinet is that the former use quality compression drivers for the highs, not those cheap, nasty-sounding piezos. Traditional bass cabinets use a completely different driver array than what stage monitors and PA systems use, so if you are patched into the PA and you’re using a bass cabinet, there’s virtually no chance that you’ll sound to the audience the same way you sound to yourself on stage. Get yourself sounding good through a good stage monitor and you have a much better chance of sounding good to the audience too, as they’ll be hearing much closer to what you’re hearing.

Lately I’ve been experimenting with a Galaxy vocal monitor, of all things. I’ve found it’s even better to get the sound right up there in your face - you can comfortably run at even lower levels and hear fine. Unfortunately, it’s just a tad too weak on the bottom end. Wish someone made something like that with something like an 8-incher...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

KeithPas · #16 09-12-2009, 05:07 PM

I did a series of gigs at a large casino and just brought my SWR SM400 head and used that as a direct box and had a huge side fill cabinet as my monitor and it was the best sound I ever had.

Kitsapbass · #17 09-12-2009, 06:38 PM

I played at a local casino as well with a good soundman, sound rig, and my BDDI...great bass sound, 2 minute setup time!

N.F.A. · #18 09-12-2009, 06:46 PM

I have played a couple of local gigs ampless. I used a Phil Jones bass buddy direct out into the PA. I used the speaker out into a Bag End 12" cabinet for my own monitoring and maybe so the band could hear me some too. It worked fine for a small venue and a festival. I immediately sold one of my amps. I am going lean and mean from now on, for most live applications. I can carry everything in one trip. I still have a solid state and tube head if I need them.

Medford Bassman · #19 09-12-2009, 07:12 PM

Wow! I sure appreciate everyone's input. Leave it to TB members for the best advice.

I use a powered monitor with a 15" speaker and horn. I get it dialed in just for what I like in this order... me, the kick and snare, vocals, guitars.

One of our guitar players will be going ampless as well. He uses in ears and he never hears his amp anymore any way.

I may get spoiled not having to carry gear.

Now I just go to figure out how to build a small box to house my Audio-Technica wireless, Sansamp and tuner.

millsbass5 · #20 09-12-2009, 07:35 PM

No clubs/bars around here providing the P.A.
So,we went absolutely ALL OUT on top-of-the-line PA gear.If we have room for our side washes,I'll go w/out my rig.But,if we're playing on a really big stage,I'll then bring my rig,along w/the side washes.