going back in time to get my tone

johnk_10 · #1 07-12-2011, 08:01 PM

after getting a bunch of live recordings, that i didn't even know existed, of a band i was in 1972 and listening to my tone back then, i've recently gotten inspired to try and capture the sound of one of my old rigs (a '69 p bass w/flatwounds thru two dual showmans with 2x15 cabs (two D130F's in one and two D140F's in the other). i remember that on stage, while standing in front of my amp, it was more distorted than i would've liked, but 10 feet out, when mixed with the band's instruments, the distortion would smooth out and just sound ballsy, and was some of the best bass tone i've ever heard to this day. (i found that out by letting a friend sit in on one song using my bass back then). after hearing the recording now in 2011, i decided to pull out my super twin head with it's 2x15 K140 cab, and i gotta say, it gets about 90% of the same tone, so that's what i'm going to start using for the next few gigs.

IMO, my tone to this day hasn't really gotten any better than it was back in 1972 when i was only 19, and i sometimes wonder if my playing got any better too.

anyway, here's a clip of one of the songs that has the tone that i'm talking about:

http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead.../1972/Free.mp3

bluesdogblues · #2 07-12-2011, 08:03 PM

Very nice John!.. I like it

tks for sharing with us

Crabby · #3 07-12-2011, 08:07 PM

Wow, what a cool song. Very Deep Purple like vibe going on and I love the bass line!

dhsierra1 · #4 07-12-2011, 08:11 PM

I love the old vintage tones as well, nothing quite like the old JBL 15s or an old SVT 8-10. Having said that, I also like the low end impact (and volume) of modern amps, so in your opinion, somehow split the difference w/biamping? For example use a modern bass driver in an optimized cabinet (eg fEARFUL sub among others), then just use the vintage amp and drivers for everything above, say, 100Hz? Just curious to get your feedback

bluesdogblues · #5 07-12-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

I love the old vintage tones as well, nothing quite like the old JBL 15s or an old SVT 8-10. Having said that, I also like the low end impact (and volume) of modern amps, so in your opinion, somehow split the difference w/biamping? For example use a modern bass driver in an optimized cabinet (eg fEARFUL sub among others), then just use the vintage amp and drivers for everything above, say, 100Hz? Just curious to get your feedback

Not exactly as your aim, but kind of:

Sting did that in The Police Reunion Tour Concerts (2007-2008 ) :
1956 Fender Precision thru Two Ampeg SVT-VR with two 810 mix with his 'usual modern' rig (Alembic F-1-X pre thru Urei 7110 compressor to Graphic EQ bi-amped to two Carver/Clair Bro's Amps, to two 18" and two 12" customize Clair Brothers cabs)
IMHO it's nice mix

But from what I learn there is no any miking of his cabs recorded. Only DI.

dhsierra1 · #6 07-12-2011, 08:25 PM

what an arsenal

Is that biamped or ?? I can imagine a lot of phase cancellation issues going on w/all that otherwise.

Not surprised he went direct for studio, thanks for that info, sure sounds like it.

bluesdogblues · #7 07-12-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhsierra1

what an arsenal

Is that biamped or ?? I can imagine a lot of phase cancellation issues going on w/all that otherwise.

Not surprised he went direct for studio, thanks for that info, sure sounds like it.

I think it's bi-amped in the 'rack' rigs.

Yes, he only use them for stage sound.. the live recording we hear on the DVD (Cartifiable) is his direct signal, not the cabs miked.

Anyway,.. Back to John's clip;
What FW strings you use back then John?

kjt · #8 07-12-2011, 08:37 PM

love the clip,take's me back

jowens004 · #9 07-12-2011, 08:39 PM

I can relate man, I found some tapes of me playing back in the early 80's when I was like 19, i wonder if i have improved at all.

johnk_10 · #10 07-12-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesdogblues

I think it's bi-amped in the 'rack' rigs.

Yes, he only use them for stage sound.. the live recording we hear on the DVD (Cartifiable) is his direct signal, not the cabs miked.

Anyway,.. Back to John's clip;
What FW strings you use back then John?

they were fender f-80's. the ones that came stock on the bass (bought it brand new in decmeber of '69).

jowens004 · #11 07-12-2011, 08:40 PM

Very nice bass tone on that sound clip by the way, very nice indeed.

JimmyM · #12 07-12-2011, 08:49 PM

I have trouble deciding between 3 amps what to bring. If I had your collection, I could never decide what to bring. I'd just spin in a circle till I pass out.

johnk_10 · #13 07-12-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I have trouble deciding between 3 amps what to bring. If I had your collection, I could never decide what to bring. I'd just spin in a circle till I pass out.

bluesdogblues · #14 07-12-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jowens004

I can relate man, I found some tapes of me playing back in the early 80's when I was like 19, i wonder if i have improved at all.

Is there something special about 19 year-ish age?

Funny that my guitarist best buddy always insists that the best sound of my bass (P-Bass) he ever heard onstage is at the performances we did back then when I was about 19 year old

(It was an old Fender Bassman to it's 2x15 cabs)

Too bad I don't have any recorded tape of that (nor the amp and cabs).

johnk_10 · #15 07-12-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesdogblues

Is there something special about 19 year-ish age?

hmmm. maybe we're onto to something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesdogblues

Funny that my guitarist best buddy always insists that the best sound of my bass (P-Bass) he ever heard onstage is at the performances we did back then when I was about 19 year old

(It was an old Fender Bassman to it's 2x15 cabs)

with that rig, i believe it. i just bought a '68 dual showman head just to have one around to play around with again. i'm picking it up thursday.

Russell L · #16 07-12-2011, 09:20 PM

I love the old sound, too, but I'm digging the new lightweight stuff. I'm doing ok with getting a tone I like from my Markbass rig. Just bought a 115 cab and planning on a second one.

johnk_10 · #17 07-12-2011, 09:55 PM

well, i too do have some lightweight, middle weight and heavy weight gear, and i think that all of it sounds great, but there's something special about playing thru a rig that really inspires you. kinda like you're enveloped in the sound, and it doesn't necessarily take high volume to do it.

the other day i was talking to another bassist about how, in the old days, we actually played pretty loud, maybe not by today's standards, but standing in front of a dual showman running at the edge of distortion thru even two 15" JBLS is dang loud. and loud enough that the sound waves actually vibrate the body of the bass while you're playing it, giving it's tone a slight amount of 'acoustical feedback'. on those 39 year old recordings, even though it was recorded on a cheap stereo cassette recorder on the side of the stage, and is really distorted, i can actually hear my fingers on the fingerboard, and the bass tracks pretty well. to me, that's the really cool thing about playing live vs playing in the studio or practicing at home. on top of that every room/club you play in is different and makes it even more interesting (and unfortunately, sometimes a challenge).

chaosMK · #18 07-13-2011, 12:36 AM

I love a little grit helping you in the mix. I think a lot of people these days aren't aware of the wonders it can work.

Venom of God · #19 07-13-2011, 12:40 AM

Your band was awesome! Also love the grit.

Stumbo · #20 07-13-2011, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesdogblues

Is there something special about 19 year-ish age?

I was playing a '63 Fender Jazz Bass(with a pick) through a Sunn 2000s/2x15 cab when I was 19. Got to hear the rig FOH at one gig. One the best tones I've ever heard. Any picking click disappeared FOH. Just clean, full and smooth (and plenty loud).