going full circle, back to my beginnings

johnk_10 · #1 07-21-2011, 02:59 AM

last week i posted some soundclips of the first club band that i was in in 1972. back then, i was using my first 'pro level' rig, a '62 blonde showman (with my extra blonde fender showman cab that had two JBL D140's in it) and a '68 dual showman with it's dual showman cab containing two D130F's.

i bought the '62 showman with it's matching blonde tone ring cab in '69 in mint condition with the original slip covers (& i still miss that amp!), but used the 2x15 showman cab for gigging. since it was really my first quality tube amp, i remember loving the tone of it, so last week, i picked up a '68 dual showman head and went completely thru it to put it back to its original specs. i have two matching tone ring showman cabs (a '66 and a '68 on the way to me), but for now, i'm running it thru a 2x15 fender cab loaded with two K140's. well, i just plugged it in with my '71 p bass with flatwounds, and it brought back alot of great memories. it's kinda late so i didn't get a chance to really crank it up but man, it has everything i love about a tube amp and nothing that i don't, and it's pretty loud to boot.

anyway, owning a TON of other tube bass amps since then (Ampegs, Sunns, Marshalls, HiWatts) and a couple of SS ones (acoustic 361, 371, a 320/408, and a couple of Sunn coliseums, i don't think it really ever got any better than the good ol Showmans. louder yes, but IMO not any better. there's just something special about playing a fender bass thru a vintage fender tube amp with JBL's that's hard to explain. it's almost as though it's an acoustic, even though it's amplified. it's also very responsive, from the lightest touch, to pounding the strings and everything in between.

anyway, here's a quick clip of my '71 p bass running thru it at 'living room level', recorded with a zoom h4n about 6" off of one of the k140's.

http://johnkvintageguitars.homestead...showman-01.mp3

Sartori · #2 07-21-2011, 04:13 AM

Sounds great. Very nice tone and very nice playing, too.

Plays_For_Dog · #3 07-21-2011, 04:24 AM

I dig it.

rodl2005 · #4 07-21-2011, 04:57 AM

Totally understand. That's a sound that's hard to top imo.
If my back ever recovers - got an operation next month - then I'll be back into all tube & 2x15"s too

rickdog · #5 07-21-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

last week i posted some soundclips of the first club band that i was in in 1972....

Thank you, I loved those! They are part of my regular listening at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

there's just something special about playing a fender bass thru a vintage fender tube amp with JBL's that's hard to explain. it's almost as though it's an acoustic, even though it's amplified.

Not acoustic... but it becomes all one instrument, all the way from where your fingers touch the strings to where the speaker cones move the air.

topcat2069 · #6 07-21-2011, 08:14 AM

Could that be why Alembic based their pre amp on the Fender Showman pre?? With a Macintosh power amp......

BTW I had a Showman and two Guild 1X15 cabs for a while.... Great tone but not enough volume for those pre PA support day.

jnewmark · #7 07-21-2011, 09:13 AM

You are preaching to the choir about JBL's. I wish someone would design a NEO 15 that sounded like that before I die. Do you like the Showman more than the Super Twin ?

NKBassman · #8 07-21-2011, 09:43 AM

Sounds real nice! Dig the Hendrix.

That sounds pretty close to the tone I've been after lately with my SVT 2-PRO and Emperor 2x15 with Eminence Legends.

johnk_10 · #9 07-21-2011, 10:16 AM

thanks guys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnewmark

.......................... Do you like the Showman more than the Super Twin ?

with the showman, it's a little easier to just plug it in and have a great tone, but i can get the exact same tone with the super twin only ALOT louder with more headroom, of course. i'd say if there is a difference, it's that the super twin is just a tiny smidge tighter, but i was going back and forth between the two and if you set it just right, you can't tell any difference between the two, making me appreciate how great the super twin is, more than ever.

edbass · #10 07-21-2011, 11:13 AM

Very nice John. Rich and tasty, but... Can't I get that same tone (only better) from transistors, neo drivers, and modelling?

WilliamSandoval · #11 07-21-2011, 11:15 AM

Manic Depression. Nice...

johnk_10 · #12 07-21-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edbass

Very nice John. Rich and tasty, but... Can't I get that same tone (only better) from transistors, neo drivers, and modelling?

thanks Ed.
...............and to answer your question, oh sure you can.

JimmyM · #13 07-21-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

thanks Ed.
...............and to answer your question, oh sure you can.

HAHA! Yeah, sure you can!

I will say it's gotten a lot better than before, and the Micro VR/VT Deluxe has become my rig of choice for my day to day gigs, and I'd go listen to you play even if you had a modeling rig. And fortunately, my band's fans would, too. But seriously now...

2400 · #14 07-22-2011, 04:24 AM

Now that's tasty tone!

Interceptor · #15 07-22-2011, 05:51 AM

Great tone, John!

How close can you get with a fenderish preamp?

johnk_10 · #16 07-22-2011, 08:14 AM

i tried to get that tone with an Alembic F1-X (with a crown xti2000 poweramp) that i used to have, which is a fender type preamp, and while it sounded good, for some reason it never struck me as sounding the same as a real dual showman (or the same as my super twin head).

unfortunately, i sold the alembic pre about six months ago so i don't have it to compare it to the fender anymore.

koobie · #17 07-22-2011, 05:27 PM

John, I still don't know what the tone ring gizmo was in the older Fender cabs. What was it's purpose? Got a pic that shows one?

I'd assume there were appreciable differences between the '62 Showman and '69 Dual Showman circuits. Used for bass, how do their sounds compare?

Which, (if any) modern day 15's do you particularly like the tone of?

johnk_10 · #18 07-22-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koobie

John, I still don't know what the tone ring gizmo was in the older Fender cabs. What was it's purpose? Got a pic that shows one?

it's a ring that speaker mounts onto, and then the ring mounts to a dual baffle. the baffle has a port 360 degress around the speaker, so the sound off of the back of the speaker travels to the side edges of the dual baffle and out the front radiates 360 degrees around the speaker.

here's some pics that might show it better than words:

here's the raw baffle:

Quote:

Originally Posted by koobie

I'd assume there were appreciable differences between the '62 Showman and '69 Dual Showman circuits. Used for bass, how do their sounds compare?

the '62 was definitely a different animal. it had a presence control, a 12AX7 phase inverter (as opposed to the later 12AT7) and a tube vibrato circuit as opposed to a opto vibrato, but actually, for bass they still can sound quite similar. my '68 is an AB763 circuit so it's the same as the '63 blackface models, all the way down to having cloth covered wiring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by koobie

Which, (if any) modern day 15's do you particularly like the tone of?

i don't know. i certainly haven't heard one yet, and i've tried to find a modern replacement for a K140, but to no avail, so for now, i just keep buying the vintage JBL's. they handle ALOT of power, and sound awesome, and the alnico mag ones aren't all that heavy, so i figure why change anything?

koobie · #19 07-23-2011, 10:40 AM

Thanks for the info, I didn't know there was that much to the tone ring. I had pictured just a basic wood standoff for the driver.

johnk_10 · #20 08-05-2011, 11:46 AM

well, since i really loved my tone on those old 1972 clips, i had to get a couple of showmans again just to witness that sound again. and yep, they have the exact same vibe as they had way back in '72.

pictured below are an early '68 dual showman, with a mid '68 showman cab with a D140 (purchased a week ago) and an early blackface '67 showman head on a '65 showman cab with a K140 (also purchased a week ago).

the '68/'68:

the '67/'65:

the '68 dual showman head with both cabs: