Green?

Greentowhite · #1 11-24-2012, 12:17 PM

Hey all. I often find threads on this forum helpful, but I've never actually made an account and posted... until now...

Anyways I'm in the market for a new amplification setup and have been consider purchasing a Green half stack. I've only ever seen one bassist use Green and that's Al Cisneros from Om/Sleep/Shrinebuilder. I'm a fan of the guy's work, but I'm not trying to sound exactly like him so I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with their products. If I were going for a brutal fuzz tone at all times this would be an easy decision, but I like to alternate between clean and fuzz and pretty much always prefer using pedals to amp distortion. Right now I'm thinking of running their 4 - KT88 180watt head through their 4-10w/2x15 combination cab.

Does anyone have opinions about either or both of these products? Any advice would be helpful. For reference I've included a link to some recent recordings I'm on. My more recent compositions have been a bit cleaner than these tracks.

maeth.bandcamp.com

**CL400Peavey** · #2 11-24-2012, 12:23 PM

I would run out of clean head room with only 180 watts. It will really depend on how loud you need to go, and how clean you want to be. You will also have better results with matching cabs.

mpdd · #3 11-24-2012, 02:11 PM

if you need clean the mesa d180 has a loud clean setting and the buster is especially clean, both are around 180 -200 watts, they are loud enough for my purposes but i think the 300 watt and 400 watt tube guys probably play a lot bigger places than i do (i'm playing in the occasional warehouse, museum, gallery, or living room)

D.M.N. · #4 11-24-2012, 02:34 PM

Maybe check out Matamp and their GT200. Matamp is the original company that Orange, Green, Electric, White, Black, and all those various incarnations stem from. They're a UK based company, but if I was looking at that style of amp, that's the only company I'd look at seriously. Besides the fact that the GT200 will provide more usable headroom, has a drive and master volume control (so you can dial in the distortion you want at whatever volume), Electric Amp (the company that makes Green amps now), at least last I heard, has insane wait times for their amps. Check around the forum (use the search function to search for Electric Amps or Green Amps), there's been a few other threads regarding this subject.

Greentowhite · #5 11-24-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

Maybe check out Matamp and their GT200. Matamp is the original company that Orange, Green, Electric, White, Black, and all those various incarnations stem from. They're a UK based company, but if I was looking at that style of amp, that's the only company I'd look at seriously. Besides the fact that the GT200 will provide more usable headroom, has a drive and master volume control (so you can dial in the distortion you want at whatever volume), Electric Amp (the company that makes Green amps now), at least last I heard, has insane wait times for their amps. Check around the forum (use the search function to search for Electric Amps or Green Amps), there's been a few other threads regarding this subject.

I've been curious about Matamp. They seem pretty common in studios (at least the ones I've been in), but I've seen very few live. I didn't know that they pioneered that aesthetic, and had always assumed that Orange had been the first, but never bothered to research it. It looks to me like with the right cab it could get the tone I want (really solid low end, lots of growl, I want you to feel me all over your body... wait that came out wrong). Any recommendations? My fourth string is a 125gauge tuned to a low C, and that's the range I have the most trouble with.

Mr. Foxen · #6 11-24-2012, 03:39 PM

Al sold all his Green/Matamp rig to Hank III, and uses Ampeg now because the tour support is better. His Matamp stuff were guitar amps with 6550 in place of the EL34 so they distorted. GT200 should be a fair bit more reliable for bass. Since they are custom made, you can have it made drivier etc.

Greentowhite · #7 11-24-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Al sold all his Green/Matamp rig to Hank III, and uses Ampeg now because the tour support is better. His Matamp stuff were guitar amps with 6550 in place of the EL34 so they distorted. GT200 should be a fair bit more reliable for bass. Since they are custom made, you can have it made drivier etc.

Thanks for the info. This makes a lot of sense. I've always thought he used guitar amps, but since his fuzz is some unknowncustommysterybox it's hard to tell exactly what he's running off the record. The only time I've seen him live he was using exclusively Green, but it was a pretty small gig at a record store so I doubt it was his full setup. I also am aware that he's used mostly Ampeg on Om's latest album and at least most of God is Good.

I've considered going for some Ampeg. I've played a few gigs using my housemate's Ampeg half stack and it sounds pretty sick imo. I've heard from tone snobs that their more affordable gear simply isn't worth the investment, so with Ampeg it's top shelf or bust. Perhaps that's just hearsay?

oinkbanana · #8 11-24-2012, 05:05 PM

this page has an excellent detail of the history of matamp, orange & green amps
how they intersected at various times
http://www.matamp.com/mat-mathias.html

**bassboysam** · #9 11-24-2012, 05:38 PM

I have the MK I GT200 and, besides it being a little noisy, i love it. more than loud enough for me with an 810 cab.

there aren't a lot of clips of it but here are some that I know of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdwGfU7VWgc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmjT_pbglZ8

my youtube page has a few clips but they are all live band mixes.

Mr. Foxen · #10 11-24-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oinkbanana

this page has an excellent detail of the history of matamp, orange & green amps
how they intersected at various times
http://www.matamp.com/mat-mathias.html

Loads of wrong info in there. Its all slanted by the fact the guy who registered Matamp.com dislikes the guy who owns Matamp, after he ceased being a dealer due to dodge practices. Matamp were contracted to build Oranges by Gibson owned Orange, and were also contracted to build amps for Ashdown, so there is bunches of common parts, but they weren't 'Ashdown chassis' and suchlike. Basically, all of the later history is false info, I've spoken to/dealt with most of the people involved. Current US dealer is Midwest Matamp: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Midwe...81588148532510

Proper Matamps are pretty clean unless you specify otherwise, more transparent than Ampeg which stamp their own sound on things.

**bassboysam** · #11 11-24-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

Current US dealer is Midwest Matamp: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Midwe...81588148532510

Pretty sure they don't have dealers anymore and everything needs to be ordered directly through Matamp. Gotta start saving up for a MKII...

oinkbanana · #12 11-24-2012, 05:56 PM

yeah I agree some of the facts are skewed to paint the EA guys in a good light, but there's no blatant lies, not that I noticed or know otherwise.

the 90's Orange rejuvenation deal didn't have gibson owning orange, just distributing them. Those amps were still being built at Huddersfield (the UK matamp plant),
In ~98 the orange amps were built at the trace elliot plant (until 2002?). Is that where Ashdown amp story comes in too?
IIRC vintage orange amps were built at Huddersfield too, even after they stopped being "matmp orange" labeled from 72-79.
I don't know about orange production in the 80's, then again it was a time when tube amps were NOT in demand, and people were selling them 2nd hand for chump change.

The canadian matamp dealer G-spot is here in montreal... I thought they delt to the US too.
so no need for me to go through the US dealer at Midwest.

edit: http://g-spot-music.com/site/matamp-usa-canada/ looks like they're NOT a dealer anymore.
they still adverise on ebay though. as US and Canadian dealer.

**bassboysam** · #13 11-24-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oinkbanana

yeah I agree some of the facts are skewed to paint the EA guys in a good light, but there's no blatant lies, not that I noticed or know otherwise.

the 90's Orange rejuvenation deal didn't have gibson owning orange, just distributing them. Those amps were still being built at Huddersfield (the UK matamp plant),
In ~98 the orange amps were built at the trace elliot plant (until 2002?). Is that where Ashdown amp story comes in too?
IIRC vintage orange amps were built at Huddersfield too, even after they stopped being "matmp orange" labeled from 72-79.
I don't know about orange production in the 80's, then again it was a time when tube amps were NOT in demand, and people were selling them 2nd hand for chump change.

The canadian matamp dealer G-spot is here in montreal... I thought they delt to the US too.
so no need for me to go through the US dealer at Midwest.

edit: http://g-spot-music.com/site/matamp-usa-canada/ looks like they're NOT a dealer anymore.
they still adverise on ebay though. as US and Canadian dealer.

G-spot was the dealer and thats where i got mine from. he is still selling off his stock but he cant order anything new for you.

oinkbanana · #14 11-24-2012, 06:17 PM

i get the bitterness between EA and matamp
pages like this http://www.planetoftheamps.com/elect...omparison.html make it plenty obvious. I figure anyone seeing that sees the obvious bias.
I came close to getting a pair of matamp 412 cabs in red last year... but my bandmate had red marshall cabs and I felt guilty of stealing his aesthetic thunder.. went with orange cabs instead to match my OTR120 heads. One day I'll own a quad KT88 head. It's always been a dream of mine. (I had an orange TV200h for a while, but it was really no good. not even close to enough clean headroom, but that's for another thread)

Greentowhite · #15 11-24-2012, 07:49 PM

Ok so this thread has been super derailed. Although I found this debate interesting I'm left unsure of what I should do in terms of my purchase. I agree with what has been said about ampeg stamping their sound onto their products. I use an ampeg now, but I bought it when I was first learning bass and playing in a band where the bass guitar was more of a support role (it was a classic stoner metal band as opposed to the more post-rock/ambient vibe I'm working with now). It sound like people have good experiences with Matamp. Are the as versatile as they claim to be (I run a huge pedal board for a broad range of sounds)? What cabs have you guys run them through, and which sound the best?

Tractorr · #16 11-24-2012, 07:53 PM

Just so you know Al isn't playing Greens anymore. I saw him last night he was running an SVT VR with an 8X10, and 2 Ampeg PF500s one going to a 2X10 and the other to a 1X15.

Mr. Foxen · #17 11-24-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greentowhite

Ok so this thread has been super derailed. Although I found this debate interesting I'm left unsure of what I should do in terms of my purchase. I agree with what has been said about ampeg stamping their sound onto their products. I use an ampeg now, but I bought it when I was first learning bass and playing in a band where the bass guitar was more of a support role (it was a classic stoner metal band as opposed to the more post-rock/ambient vibe I'm working with now). It sound like people have good experiences with Matamp. Are the as versatile as they claim to be (I run a huge pedal board for a broad range of sounds)? What cabs have you guys run them through, and which sound the best?

If the manipulation of tone is coming from pedals, then the transparent but warm valve thing is what Matamp are all about. I don't especially rate Matamp cabs though, not kept up with moving speaker tech. Hoping to be trying a GT200 into a Barefaced 2x15 soon.

Greentowhite · #18 11-24-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Foxen

If the manipulation of tone is coming from pedals, then the transparent but warm valve thing is what Matamp are all about. I don't especially rate Matamp cabs though, not kept up with moving speaker tech. Hoping to be trying a GT200 into a Barefaced 2x15 soon.

WORD! See I knew Matamp cabs must be faulty, because I've never ever seen one live. I'm running a ton of delay so fuzzier amps make my tone way too muddy, but it sounds like the Matamp can help mitigate that. Does anyone have experience running Matamps through ampeg cabs?

**bassboysam** · #19 11-24-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greentowhite

Ok so this thread has been super derailed. Although I found this debate interesting I'm left unsure of what I should do in terms of my purchase. I agree with what has been said about ampeg stamping their sound onto their products. I use an ampeg now, but I bought it when I was first learning bass and playing in a band where the bass guitar was more of a support role (it was a classic stoner metal band as opposed to the more post-rock/ambient vibe I'm working with now). It sound like people have good experiences with Matamp. Are the as versatile as they claim to be (I run a huge pedal board for a broad range of sounds)? What cabs have you guys run them through, and which sound the best?

I wouldn't call the GT200 MK I versatile (never tried the MK II). The EQ is very subtle and i would say hardly noticeable in a band mix. but that could also be my cab (ampeg 810 with legend b810 speakers). maybe a more hi-fi cab would be more responsive. i always have an EQ pedal in case i cant get the tone where i like, but i rarely need it.

In stock form the GT200 is very clean. i cant get much dirt out of the preamp and you really need to dime the master to get power tube breakup. it handles pedals really well. also the presence control is actually a flat volume boost that you can use to compensate for the slight volume drop caused by the tone stack. i had mine modified to act more like a traditional presence control.

**bassboysam** · #20 11-24-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greentowhite

WORD! See I knew Matamp cabs must be faulty, because I've never ever seen one live. I'm running a ton of delay so fuzzier amps make my tone way too muddy, but it sounds like the Matamp can help mitigate that. Does anyone have experience running Matamps through ampeg cabs?

Not faulty, just nothing special and over priced for what they are. you'll see more guitarists using them than bass players.