Guitar player turned bassist, trying to build a rig, help!

[xmorgan socialx]

alright guys, I've been lurking for a bit but have yet to post. I justed started a new band with some guys from work, doing sort of a green day/bouncing souls/gaslight anthem/the clash kind of thing. 3 of us are guitar players, and since I was the only one that had a bass (and admittedly I am the weakest link guitar playing wise) I am taking over bass duties.

Anyway, I am a gear nerd and have a lot of guitar stuff, but am new to Bass. I picked up a marshall bass rig from the 80's to use for the time being (love the cabs, not sold on the head)

I was thinking about getting a Mesa M6 carbine but then locked down a used Bass 400 for a lot less than an M6. First question, are there any reliability issues with the Bass 400's? As a guitar player it's really hard for me to accept that an amp that isn't all tube can sound good which is why the Bass 400 really apeals to me (plus it sounds great!).

Second question. I am going to need a wireless, and I am having a really hard time deciding between the Sennheiser G3 and the Line 6 Relay G90. I never thought I would be considering line 6 gear (i am a self proclaimed snob) but all of the reviews I have read make it sound awesome, and I really like the simplicity of it, the fact that it doesn't need a rack kit, and the build quality seems good. Both of the guitar players use the Sennheiser exclusively for their other bands and have for a long time and swear by them. I couldn't find any comparison of the two units so i was hoping someone on here has experience with both.

I'm going to end this now because it's getting really long. But any input/advice would be appreciated. thanks.

[Yves]

I am a recent guitarist convert as well. Well, not really a convert, I still consider myself a guitarist. But after 20 years of guitar, I decided I want to play bass in a band now.

I went through what you are going through. That head is really fantastic, pretty solid too. If you can get a good deal on it, I would say go for it. but keep in mind that bass amps do not apply to the ss vs tubes argument. Often times, bass players want that immediate attack that ss offers. It just depends on what your needs are. I have a Mesa RR Diesel 2x15 and have been holding out for a good deal on a Mesa 400. For the time being, I am getting by quite ok with a vintage Acoustic head. Who knows I may pick up a decent preamp like the VT and call it good for even longer.

[xmorgan socialx]

Yeah, I am starting to realize that solid state is ok for Bass... but I am stuborn and want to go all tube. The bass 400 I found is $650, which seems reasonable to me. I am playing with a pick which is kind of why I want to go all tube. the solid state head I have now almost has too sharp of an attack when using a pick, but when playing with my fingers I can totally see where tube amps seem to lag a bit and a solid state amps attack would be preferred.

[Yves]

Get the Mesa, keep the Marshall as a backup.

Just curious what model head and cab is that? One thing I learned quickly was that cabs play almost just as an important part of your tone. A great head will perform no miracle if you have a mediocre cab. However, vice versa can produce surprising results.

[subexpression]

The Mesa M6 Carbine looks like a great amp. I'm both a guitarist and bass player and I've used Mesa amps for my guitars for quite some time. High quality stuff.

The Bass 400 is better if you want an all-tube amp, whereas the M6 only has tube preamp. It has twelve 6l6's and four 12ax7's...it's going to sound warmer than the M6.
Although, the Bass 400's 500W rating is the peak, and only 300W RMS. The M6 is 600W RMS. The M6 Carbine is 600W @ 4Ω or 2Ω, but 320W @ 8Ω.

As for my bass rig, I bypassed the whole "all-in-one" amp and decided on getting separate units...and for far less money.
I'm using a Sansamp RPM for my preamp, and a Crown XLS 802d, 500W per channel @ 8Ω.
Left channel is driving SWR 4x10, and right is driving SWR 1x15.

So, for 1000W RMS, I can't complain whatsoever. The tone is killer and even at 8Ω, it is brutal. I rehearse with loud guitarists & drummers...I never turn either channel up past the second detented notch, so it's always on "2"

The Sansamp RPM was $350 USD, and the Crown XLS 802d was the same price. So, for ~$700, I have an extensible system. If I upgrade my enclosures, I have the potential to push 2100W @ 4Ω bridge-mono.

As for your choice to go with Line 6, I must say you made the right one. Sennheiser makes great products, but the Line 6 is 24bit digital. Since it's a digital data stream, the signal is pure through & through. I have the Line 6 X2 XDS Plus...a lesser unit, but still has that killer 24bit digital technology.

[Gearhead17]

Although the Line 6 Relay systems are not USA made, they work great! I would highly suggest looking at the G50 instead - 200' you can go from your rig, the G90 is 300' and unless you are Bono or the Rolling Stones, 300' is not necessary. If you want the rack mount option, then the G90 is the better choice.

Since using the G50, I have had no signal drop outs, sound quality is always good and the batteries last for just under 9 hours. It's wonderful to not have a cord at my feet and I get much more high end out of the wireless than I did with my 20' Mogami instrument cable. I don't miss you using instrument cable at all. The tone sounds better to my ears over a cable.

[christw]

Hah! Don't be suckered by the marketing and myth. If it sounds good and plays good, get it. I play bass on equal parts SS and tube and wouldn't want to be rid of either. I would have no shame in using an SS amp if it sounds good.

[audiomitch]

Originally Posted by xmorgan socialx

3 of us are guitar players, and since I was the only one that had a bass (and admittedly I am the weakest link guitar playing wise) I am taking over bass duties.

First, welcome to the dark side.

Second, I always find this logic interesting. The weakest player gets put on bass, while it should be the other way around. It certainly worked out that way for the Beatles!

If you take it seriously, you'll find many subtleties and approaches that you wouldn't have if you just stuck to guitar. And if you break away from the tyranny of the root note, you'll find you have more control over the arrangement than anyone else.

Good luck and have fun!

[subexpression]

Originally Posted by audiomitch

And if you break away from the tyranny of the root note, you'll find you have more control over the arrangement than anyone else.

Yes! So many modern bands turn the bass player into the guitarist's butler...holding down root notes for every power chord.

Of course, when the song calls for it, the octave-under root note thing works well.

I like to balance it out: playing both the slave root notes and deliberate counterpoint with adventuresome runs through the fertile plains of bassland!

Originally Posted by christw

I would have no shame in using an SS amp if it sounds good.

Right on! I've heard both extremes...great sounding valve & ss, and horrible sounding valve & ss.

The ears are the final judge.

For my gigs, my ss bass rig fills up the room pretty well, but we're reinforced with a pretty decent PA...so it tends to be far louder than my rig (unless you're right up front).

I can't get away from the fact that even if I get a tube head, I'm still running an XLR line out through a solid state PA which dominates any amp I'm using.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by subexpression

The Bass 400 is better if you want an all-tube amp, whereas the M6 only has tube preamp. It has twelve 6l6's and four 12ax7's.

You're thinking of the 400+. The 400 has 6 power tubes.

[Yves]

Originally Posted by audiomitch

Second, I always find this logic interesting. The weakest player gets put on bass, while it should be the other way around. It certainly worked out that way for the Beatles!

There are plenty of bands that have had the bassist as the driving musical force. I consider myself a very strong guitarist. But being a bassist puts me in a position where I want to extend my musical influence on a different scale. Meaning, I don't want to just play flashy parts, but I want the overall sound of the band to be interesting and exciting.

[JimmyM]

tubes over ss
relay over g3



nothing wrong with ss, especially these days where they've made really great strides in duplicating tube tones with ss gear. but it just isn't the same as far as i'm concerned. might sound the same to the crowd but it makes a world of difference to me, and i'm what counts

[xmorgan socialx]

There are some great solid state amps out there, but I think the bass 400 is going to do it for me. Its simple, And I thinking it sounds awesome. The marshall gear I have is a 3540 ibs bass head and 2 1520 4x12 cabs.

I want the relay g90 over the g50 because of the rackmounting aspect. I want my bass rig as self contained as possible.

[Chin]

Definitely go for the Line 6. I use a G50 for marching at half-time shows and the tone comes in clear and without delay from all over the field. Unless it's on the power saving setting... then the delay is horrible. But it's pretty easy on batteries anyways so leave it on high.

[Nemasis]

Most definitely go with the G50. You will not be disappointed. Purchase some Lithoum batteries and the unit will last throughout your gig.

As far as Mesa goes, I am not a fan. I smoked the voice coils on a new 6-10 cabinet using an Ampeg SVT 6 head. Just go listen to what sounds good to you and then jump on it. Then find a good bass teacher to help you hone your skills.

[audiomitch]

Originally Posted by Yves

There are plenty of bands that have had the bassist as the driving musical force. I consider myself a very strong guitarist. But being a bassist puts me in a position where I want to extend my musical influence on a different scale. Meaning, I don't want to just play flashy parts, but I want the overall sound of the band to be interesting and exciting.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not , but I was commenting on this specific instance, and the predilection of most bass-less garage type bands who press a guitarist in to bass duty.

The list of bassist driven bands is long, and IMO The Beatles would be on that list.

[G_FUNK Music]

I just came from a gig out of town, and the backline bass rig provided was an Ampeg 8X10, and Ampeg svt-cl. What a killer rig! I actually use a Markbass 2x10 combo normally - (solid state). Apart from the obvious difference in the size of the enclosures, so its a bit hard to compare, but tonally (the warmth of Valve), I have to admit the Ampeg will always win hands down. And i would say from my experience, that even though SS may have a greater attack, valves don't take enough of it away to be too concerned with.
Its always going to be a compromise. The weight of the gear versus the comparison in sound. I would like to save my back. I don't have roadies, so the Markbass won hands down.
I used to lust over a Mesa rig, but the backline provided was always Ampeg - I dont know of any real reason why. Perhaps its the masses are saying it's better.
I agree, if it sounds good, it's good!
Just after xmas, I bought the g50 Line 6, and I cant rave about it enough. It DOES sound better than a cable. From day 1, I made up three transmitter leads, as lots of forums talk of the problems with these. I am still using the original one after 3 corporate shows, and had no problems. Before the last show at a rehearsal, the batteries started dying on the transmitter, which produced a little signal loss. It kept doing it intermittently untill I relaced the batteries, and I was as good as new.
So, I got about 7 hours of battery life out of the unit.
A WICKED quality in sound. I have metered all my leads, and re-made all the ones that read above 0.3 ohms. (an ABSOLUTE MUST for ALL cable users!) So in saying that, even though all the connections in my rig have the best possible signal, the Line 6 wireless gave me better gain and sound quality overall.
I suppose with the little gigging I have done with the unit, I probably arent the most qualified to rate it, but so far, it's nothing less than amazing. TOTALLY stoked with the results! I got to the other side of the massive field without loosing any signal. I gave up on walking away from the receiver!
My advise as a fellow bassist is, to keep the setup as SIMPLE as possible. You get the best results that way.
Last night, our cover band started the night. I use finger style, but the bass player in the next band uses picks. We both used our own G&L basses into the same Ampeg rig, and both our tones through the PA were transparent, broad in range, and most importantly, warm and tonally decernable.
No worries if it's SS, or Valve. Line 6 are great. Keep it up, after all these years, I am SOOO glad I am a bass player. Enjoy it!