hard to get good sound at rehearsal w 4X10??

[Woodsglen]

I'm having issues getting a good sound at rehearsal.

I'm Running a GB neopak3.5 through GB 4X10XLT

At my house ( a large room with taller ceilings and about 800Sq ft) the sound is excellent ( what do I know.. I'm a new bass player)

I Have found the sound of my rig to be way bottom heavy if I'm standing right next to it.. beside it.. or right on top of it.. until I get out in front of it and then it cleans up and sounds "normal"

Now at the other guys practice space.. we're talking about basement with finished ceilings, carpet and I'd say 20 X 16 area with the drums taking up one side of that 16 and us on the other half. ( Drums.. think Deafening!)

Nothing I do seems to sound right - MAYBE because they are playing so loud I need to wear earplugs? A Drummer breaking sticks at rehearsal?? oh please!

I was so disgusted last night I'm pretty much done with it.. but the question remains...

What can I expect from a rig with a 4X10 cabinet??

Was it... they were playing so loud that my rig in the room was resonating so I couldn't get a decent tone ( if i tried).

Lets take the "band" out of the equation... had I been there alone... with piece and quiet...

Are the characteristics of the cabinet going to be predictable in little rehearsal spaces and in larger spaces like on stage?

I'm planning on some auditions coming up and I'd like to get some feed back from someone who has walked through this minefield!

Do you guys NOT take a larger cabinet into a smaller room?
If I do.. Is it going to be EQ issues that I should expect?

Is this a cabinet that needs to be at a certain SPL for it to sound good?

What should I expect and plan for?

I've never used any other bass rig so I really would like some advise. ( ie.. should I keep my eyes open for a 1X12 or something)
Thanks!

[pgullo64]

Getting a good soung in a live situation requires all band members to listen to each other. So if everyone is loud and then everyone turns up because they cant hear themselves, then the other guy turns up, etc. First things first, whoever is too loud should turn down.

As for bass sound, there is a huge difference between what your rig sounds like in your room and what it sounds like in a live playing situation. I would suggest turning down the lower frequencies if your you cant hear yourself or it sounds muddy, the low frequencies really can't be heard anyway, so roll off a bit to cut through, also, try to avoid "shaping" too much, listen to what frequencies are resonating and roll them off a bit. Most of your tone however will come from your fingers, and in time you will sound better in live situations. The key is listening to the whole band, rather than just yourself though.

Good lunch and have fun!

[Nashrakh]

Sounds to me like your band being too loud does indeed seem to be the issue.

Maybe try asking them for a quieter practice next time to see if it's your cab flunking out or the band's volume. $50 say the latter.

[craig.p]

My suggestion is that you build a semi-isolation booth for the drummer for the smaller room. This will:

1. cut down on bleed-out into the room;
2. reflect his sound back into his own ears, either encouraging him to play more responsibly or deafening him.

Until that's done, don't turn up, don't change your equipment, and if the others squawk about not being able to hear you, tell them it's their problem, not yours. A 4x10 is plenty for rehearsals. (Look at it this way: If a 4x10 isn't enough for rehearsals, then that would imply you'd need at least an 8x10 for rehearsals, which in turn would imply you'd need at least two 8x10s for live work because live work typically runs louder than rehearsals -- absurd on the face of it.)

If the drummer doesn't agree to play in a booth, or doesn't agree to play more responsibly, then fire him. Or look for another band.

[Stereo Joe]

Do you have your rig sitting on the floor?

Getting your rig up off the floor and away from walls can help reduce boomy bass.

[Woodsglen]

All points taken!... OK.. I've got some questions based on what you all have told me..

but first... I love the idea of the plexiglass cage for the drummer!!!
The drummer is a hopeless situation.. one of us has to go and I have no problem moving on ( if they can't see the problem it tells me something).. and I'm looking at other things anyway..

Ok.. about the cabinet.. i never doubted a 4X10 was not enough. I thought perhaps a small cabinet running "up to speed" would maybe sound better.. but why spend the money!...

i was more concerned that the 410 cabinet was not coming up to speed at lower volumes ( needing to be driven to some degree of sound level to bring out the tonal qualities )..

Good one about the floor though... getting it off the floor would flatten it out considerably... fundamental principal of any speaker..

I'm going to work with my rig in some various rooms here ( at home ). my studio is pretty big (almost 900 sq ft and 14 ft ceilings) so it's not your normal home practice space. I'm going to take it into some smaller areas with lower ceilings and see what I get.

I guess the biggest concern for my post was..... Hopefully, I'm going to be walking into an audition with a band and about 20 songs down under my belt from their list.. only to find myself screwed because I'm not dialed in with my tone if their rehearsal space is a small space with low ceilings ( like last night).

Fortunately I have about a week to try and experiment with this. Last night was an eye opener because I had posted a similar question last week about dialing in my tone... I thought I had it nailed until i set up in last night... and Wow.. it was a mess!

As it was before, on the GB head, i had the bass down a tad... i had the mid eq center at around 700-800Hz with a several db of gain... the highs down to about 40% then with that i had the bass boost on and the mid notched ( little preset buttons)...
this gave the bass a little punch and the mid notch seemed to curb fret noise.

The precision lyte is active so I actually could bring the blend back slightly to the bridge pickup more ( or sweep it the other way) and actually realize a big difference... and keep the bass control centered and got a nice meaty fundamental sound without a lot of fret noise.

Any Thoughts on Angling the cabinet back ( tilted like an old fender bassman cabinet).

Would that have a positive effect if one had to be positioned near a wall?

Hearing the real low end of the cabinet when i stand beside it and right over it.... vs walking out in front of it ( 10 feet or so) and hearing less of that and a more even blend has me a little stumped..

( i keep the little horn tweeter backed down on the cabinet ).. is that advisable?... it seems to keep fret noise at bay also and I'm not a funk player so.. it just seems to work so far.

thanks for the help so far.. anything more.. I'm all ears!

MAYBE A BIG QUESTION ? OK.. so i set it up like i think.. ( for starts)...
Where do I best judge what I'm hearing??... out in the middle of the little practice room - near the cab? ( i run wireless so movin around is not a problem)

Would you guys advise "not" mounting (setting) my amp head, etc on this cabinet? keeping it on a little stand or something to isolate any vibration ?

I wonder if vibration has any effect on tube preamp. ( does not seem that likely since most combos don't seem to have issues)

OK.. Thank you all!

[anderbass]

Good advice already but keep in mind that placing your cab in or near the corner of rooms usually results in significantly boosting your lows. (so you'd need to lower your bass knob/eq settings to compensate)

And that its very possible that part of that bottom heavy sound your hearing might actually be from the guitarist amps cluttering up your frequency before you even play a note. (especially if their cabs are in a corner of the room) Have them play a hard-plucked open E-string note at band volume levels to see.

[Gearhead17]

[quote=Woodsglen;9819697]All points taken!... OK.. I've got some questions based on what you all have told me..

I'm going to work with my rig in some various rooms here ( at home ). my studio is pretty big (almost 900 sq ft and 14 ft ceilings) so it's not your normal home practice space. I'm going to take it into some smaller areas with lower ceilings and see what I get.

I guess the biggest concern for my post was..... Hopefully, I'm going to be walking into an audition with a band and about 20 songs down under my belt from their list.. only to find myself screwed because I'm not dialed in with my tone if their rehearsal space is a small space with low ceilings ( like last night).

Don't worry about dialing in your tone. Just set it so you and the other band members can hear you. Whatever tone you like, throw it out the window - it comes down to setting your tone so you can hear it.

Fortunately I have about a week to try and experiment with this. Last night was an eye opener because I had posted a similar question last week about dialing in my tone... I thought I had it nailed until i set up in last night... and Wow.. it was a mess!

Exactly, no two venues/places are going to give you the same resulting tone. Acoustics are different in every room.

As it was before, on the GB head, i had the bass down a tad... i had the mid eq center at around 700-800Hz with a several db of gain... the highs down to about 40% then with that i had the bass boost on and the mid notched ( little preset buttons)...
this gave the bass a little punch and the mid notch seemed to curb fret noise.

Don't touch the bass boost button and don't mess with mid notch buttons. That is probably why your tone was out of control. Stick to the "flat setting" for the amp and just turn the knobs until you can hear yourself.

The precision lyte is active so I actually could bring the blend back slightly to the bridge pickup more ( or sweep it the other way) and actually realize a big difference... and keep the bass control centered and got a nice meaty fundamental sound without a lot of fret noise.

I suggest running it all the way open with all the fret noise. You can always reduce the frequencies above 5khz on your head to get rid of some of the fret noise. You need the upper mid frequencies 800-3khz to cut through with a pick and to hear your finger notes a little clearer.

Any Thoughts on Angling the cabinet back ( tilted like an old fender bassman cabinet).

Would that have a positive effect if one had to be positioned near a wall?

Hearing the real low end of the cabinet when i stand beside it and right over it.... vs walking out in front of it ( 10 feet or so) and hearing less of that and a more even blend has me a little stumped..

( i keep the little horn tweeter backed down on the cabinet ).. is that advisable?... it seems to keep fret noise at bay also and I'm not a funk player so.. it just seems to work so far.

thanks for the help so far.. anything more.. I'm all ears!

MAYBE A BIG QUESTION ? OK.. so i set it up like i think.. ( for starts)...
Where do I best judge what I'm hearing??... out in the middle of the little practice room - near the cab? ( i run wireless so movin around is not a problem)

Wherever you will be standing and playing is where you should judge the tone. Definitely get the cab off the ground - get a crate, another cab to stack it on and go from there.

Would you guys advise "not" mounting (setting) my amp head, etc on this cabinet? keeping it on a little stand or something to isolate any vibration ?

I wonder if vibration has any effect on tube preamp. ( does not seem that likely since most combos don't seem to have issues)

Vibration to cabs, I still have not seen anything bad happen from it. I heard about a player who vibrated his Markbass head off the cab, but honestly, I have not found a bass cab that vibrates that much. You can put a towel underneath the amp if you are worried about it.

Try not to think so much! And remember this, the volume of a band starts with the drummer. If he is loud, everyone will try to be louder so they can hear themselves. If he won't get quieter, it's going to be a major problem. We used to play in a a really lousy practice space and I had to use two 410's just to be loud enough. The drummer was not that loud either. I have been in other spaces where a 410 was plenty.... good luck! Keep it simple.

[MIJ-VI]

Originally Posted by Stereo Joe

Do you have your rig sitting on the floor?

Getting your rig up off the floor and away from walls can help reduce boomy bass.

This ^ and have the band turn down. Too many groups rehearse at volumes that would get them fired at a gig. (Bring ear plugs in case things do get out of hand.)

Playing so loud as to force a drummer to break sticks destroys any chance of the drummer and the band developing the musical dynamics which distinguish any truly professional performance.

Rehearsals are for learning & honing--not for showing off.

Tilting amps back at rehearsals can help everyone hear everything more clearly without being too loud.

[Woodsglen]

Wow, Thanks you all for your contributions and help.

<<<"Playing so loud as to force a drummer to break sticks destroys any chance of the drummer and the band developing the musical dynamics which distinguish any truly professional performance.">>>

No... let me clear that one up.. he was playing the my set of V Drums in my studio - when he chopped through 2 new sticks ( broke them dead center)

I had the drum volume set for "Where it's going to be"... Just to keep the tail from wagging the dog... I had a reasonable volume ( and I do like loud.. but not the threshold of pain).

But this rehearsal was at his house on his "double kick set" with every drum known to man. ( we're talking a new monster $$$$ home in a new development - His neighbors have gotta love him!) This "basement " is actually a walkout with french doors and windows.. ( he keeps the windows open for air!)

Real nice guy too.. Seriously... He's just clueless about how to play in a group and hold a groove..
that part really comes through, regardless of how many groups he told me he was in. (for how long).

The other guys know i have issues with him. I seriously came unglued a couple of weeks ago here at my studio when I told him to just play it straight like it was written... it was obvious he had never listened to the tune and was filling all over the place basically just getting his rocks off.

Unfortunately, everyone wanted to make nice rather than face the issue!....
No one did the guy any favors by doing that...

I still remember playing keyboards when I was young having my chops busted for over playing.. it's all part of maturity and bot being a solo act.
Now I guess he thinks it's OK!. because no one wanted to make waves. So.. that signals time to go and let them deal with it.

Thanks again for ALL of the solid advice on my rig!....