Hartke 3500, ohms and compatible cabinets

BassCajon · #1 07-06-2010, 03:42 PM

My cousin just bought an older model 3500 and now he needs a cabinet.
While I feel this head goes great with a Hartke VX215 (2x15 paper cone), he does not want a cab this big.
I figure we should try to find an empty 15" cab and put in a high powered 15 that can take the abuse of the 350W @ 4 ohm rating.
I figured that would be fine for a deep rock sound.
Otherwise, are there any smaller cabs you guys could recommend that would use the power of this amp effectively?
thanks in advance for any help

mulchor · #2 07-06-2010, 03:51 PM

There's a lot of links for build-your-own/DIY in the FAQs stickied at the top of this forum.

You can also certainly find lots of ready-made cabinets that are smaller than a 2x15 and good for rock.

jumbodbassman · #3 07-06-2010, 03:52 PM

i use a avatar 2- 12 with that head and it really rocks.....

jumbodbassman · #4 07-06-2010, 04:12 PM

i use a avatar 2- 12 with that head and it really rocks.....

jaywa · #5 07-06-2010, 04:17 PM

So you're looking for a cabinet that's no bigger than a 4x10 or 1x15, yet runs at 4 ohms so you can get the full wattage out of the head? I'm not sure how many of those exist.

Is volume your main concern for running the head at its full wattage? The Hartke XL series 1x15 and 4x10 cabs (not "Transporter") were designed to work with the 3500 head and I can tell you from plenty of experience that those cabs get VERY loud even though they run 8 ohms so you are only pulling 200W from the head. And used Hartke XL cabs seem to be everywhere which means you can pick up a used one very reasonably and probably for less than building one yourself. Just a suggestion.

BassCajon · #6 07-07-2010, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumbodbassman

i use a avatar 2- 12 with that head and it really rocks.....

I will look into that, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaywa

So you're looking for a cabinet that's no bigger than a 4x10 or 1x15, yet runs at 4 ohms so you can get the full wattage out of the head? I'm not sure how many of those exist.

Is volume your main concern for running the head at its full wattage? The Hartke XL series 1x15 and 4x10 cabs (not "Transporter") were designed to work with the 3500 head and I can tell you from plenty of experience that those cabs get VERY loud even though they run 8 ohms so you are only pulling 200W from the head. And used Hartke XL cabs seem to be everywhere which means you can pick up a used one very reasonably and probably for less than building one yourself. Just a suggestion.

1x15 would be ideal, yes.
I just need the low end to be big and solid because it will be used for outdoor gigs. So I figure a 4ohm 500W speaker in a well ported cabinet might be the best option.
Otherwise, with the Hartke 15s, I prefer the sound of the VX paper cones over the XL with the aluminum speakers.
I do see VX series cabs go for cheap and they do sound great, but you know, all Hartke 1x15 cabs are 8 ohm so plugged into the 3500 solo, they only draw 250W, which usable, but I am looking to run it at 4 ohm (350W) with 1 cabinet.
My rig is a 3500 plugged into a VX215 which is 500W 4ohm and that sounds amazing to me.

But I want to see if I can get one speaker to do that.

Concerning the task of the speaker, handling the 3500 ran at 4 ohm (350W) WITH wattage to spare (500W speaker?) is ultimately what I understand to be where good thick amp bass tone comes from.
But of course I understand that 1x15 can not ever sound like a 2x15.. or can it?

phatbass · #7 07-07-2010, 02:54 AM

What's the budget?

JTE · #8 07-07-2010, 08:27 AM

Simply put, to get "... the low end to be big and solid because it will be used for outdoor gigs", you need to move air. A single 15 ain't gonna do it, and I don't think a single 4x10 will either. If you just need a great sound on stage and let the PA supply the big, solid low end, then any of the stuff listed will be fine, as well as any of the other decent cabinets out there.

The Hartke XL series cabinets were NOT designed to work with the 3500 head, as the cabinets were out and YEARS before the head came out. However, the do make a nice combination. The original Hartke 4x10 (mine were the very first ones, distributed by Guild) worked great with the 3500 (the cabinets were in my opinion MUCH better than the heads) and have a nice punchy sound. The 4.5XL cabinet has a smoother high end and while not as punchy in the mids, has a nice big cushion on the bottom. Stacking was awkward, but running one of my Guild/Hartke 410 cabinets on top of my 4.5XL sounded great.

John

BassCajon · #9 07-07-2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatbass

What's the budget?

150 - 300 for the cabinet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

Simply put, to get "... the low end to be big and solid because it will be used for outdoor gigs", you need to move air. A single 15 ain't gonna do it, and I don't think a single 4x10 will either. If you just need a great sound on stage and let the PA supply the big, solid low end, then any of the stuff listed will be fine, as well as any of the other decent cabinets out there...

I do understand the point that the more surface area of speaker that you have, the more air that can be moved and 2 speakers might be the ticket for that.
So maybe 2 8ohm cabs; a decent 1x15 and a 2x10 would do the trick making 600+ watts at 4ohms.
But I don't know.. We didn't really want to go there.
2x12 might not be a bad idea I guess.. Avatar huh?
The point is not to have to gig with a refrigerator. There will not always be a strong PA, so I want to be able to set him up so that he can hold his own.
Thanks for the help everyone.

JTE · #10 07-07-2010, 12:31 PM

My idea would be to have two 8-ohm boxes so you have a modular approach. And I'd suggest that they be matched or similar boxes. Personally I hate a 1x15/2x10 rig. I'd go for either a pair of the Avatar 2x12 or a pair of good 4x10. Most gigs a single cabinet would be sufficient, and if there's a big outdoor gig without adequate PA (I'm so glad I don't have to do those kind of gigs any more!), then take both cabinets.

John

BassCajon · #11 07-08-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

My idea would be to have two 8-ohm boxes so you have a modular approach. And I'd suggest that they be matched or similar boxes. Personally I hate a 1x15/2x10 rig. I'd go for either a pair of the Avatar 2x12 or a pair of good 4x10. Most gigs a single cabinet would be sufficient, and if there's a big outdoor gig without adequate PA (I'm so glad I don't have to do those kind of gigs any more!), then take both cabinets.

John

I see what you are saying.
I guess the thing I don't really understand is,
Why wouldn't a 4 ohm 500W 2x12 fit the bill here?
Would we be better off getting 2 8 ohm cabs, being 2x12 + 1x15 or just 1 4 ohm cab being a decently powerful 2x12?

I just left a message with J Lebrio from Staten Island and will hopefully get these questions answered when he calls back.
Thanks everyone

JTE · #12 07-08-2010, 11:38 AM

Well, I wouldn't get a 1x15 myself anyway, but...

One 2x12 4Ω box versus two 2x12 8Ω boxes has the disadvantage of not having as much speaker area. You'll get the same power out of the amp, but the difference in SOUND level between the 350 WRMS (the 4Ω rating) and the 240 WRMS (the rating at 8Ω) is pretty negligible in the real world. But the difference between running two 12" speakers and running four 12" speakers is much much more useful.

So my suggestion is to get a pair of matched 8Ω cabinets, and use whatever the gig requires.

John

jaywa · #13 07-08-2010, 11:55 AM

Yeah, this is really now getting into that whole watts-and-volume thing that has been beat to death numerous times on this board before.

BTW, I used a Hartke 3500 as my go-to head for many years and it's a nice sounding piece of gear with a lot of features I really grew to like (Pre/Post EQ option, blendable tube/SS preamps, onboard compressor, etc.). But to the OP, I would suggest you advise your cousin to keep an eye on the onboard balanced out circuit (i.e., that XLR output on the back)... mine crapped out several times the last few years I used it and that was the reason I'm not playing it today. Others have had similar experiences.

OTOH if he's micing his cab or using a DI box, that won't be an issue.

BassCajon · #14 07-08-2010, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

One 2x12 4Ω box versus two 2x12 8Ω boxes has the disadvantage of not having as much speaker area.
So my suggestion is to get a pair of matched 8Ω cabinets, and use whatever the gig requires.

John

Thank you John!
All answers have been found.
Got a call back from my tech and we figured the same thing; to go with (2) 8 ohm cabs because the cone surface/ air venting area of 2 15s or 2 2x12s is better than 1 cab when looking to use this amp at peak power.
Also, thats really the way the 3500 sounds best.
So I guess (2) 400W 8ohm cabs would do nicely.
Common enough.
thanks for all the help fellas