HARTKE HA3500 VS. EDEN WT800A

[dandbassman]

OK , I am stumped. I became an Eden fan after having pneumonia and looking for lightweight cabinets about 6 years ago. I bought 2 CX110 cabinets, now discontinued. I was using a 1992 Hartke HA3500. I came across an new old stock WT800A for $799. I bought it. The WT800 fried and fried the speakers, all fixed under warranty. I bought a Dr. Bass, now discontinued 212 8 ohm cabinet with 2 Delta 12 B. One of the Delta's got fuzzy sounding and I put 2 Kappalite 3012SO's in the cab.

The Hartke 350 watt amplifier sounds louder than running one side of the WT800 at 400 watts into 4 ohms.

My theory is that the Eden tone is based on running largely inaudible low frequencies which blow speakers and send the amp into clipping before sounding anywhere near as loud as the Hartke. I am "wasting" power on low end that is inaudible. That is without any bass control past 12 oclock or using any enhance on the Eden. I really like my 212 Kappalite 3012 Eminence cab with the Hartke amp. Damn loud and pretty even sounding before getting to half volume!

Any theories out there?

[4Mal]

Having owned both those amps, I would have to say the I disagree. I liked my 3500 but it was not in the same league with my WT800A, not even close. In terms of the low freq's taking out speakers, yes the low cut is very low but that means you have to pay attention. Bass boost and enhance will definitely get you in trouble unless you are equipped to handle it cab wise. To net that out... There is no way, none that I would pick a 3500 over a WT400, let alone an 800 ...

[murphy]

I have to agree with the OP that I did find Eden"watts" not as loud as others.
my old Hartke 3500 was always loud enough....but my WT400 would run out of steam quicker.....which is why I bought the WT800 and bridged it.

[vin*tone]

An 800 watt amp through 2x200w speakers and they're blowing?

I don't think the sub freqs are the prob.

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by 4Mal

Having owned both those amps, I would have to say the I disagree. I liked my 3500 but it was not in the same league with my WT800A, not even close. In terms of the low freq's taking out speakers, yes the low cut is very low but that means you have to pay attention. Bass boost and enhance will definitely get you in trouble unless you are equipped to handle it cab wise. To net that out... There is no way, none that I would pick a 3500 over a WT400, let alone an 800 ...

This.

Most problems encountered by people with Eden products are people who might not be as familiar as they should be with the way the amp works.

[dandbassman]

Originally Posted by vin*tone

An 800 watt amp through 2x200w speakers and they're blowing?

I don't think the sub freqs are the prob.

Cx110 's are rated 200 watts the WT800 is 200 watts aside at 8 ohms

My Dr. Bass cab was rated at 1000 watts with Delta 12B's. With the currently loaded 3012SO's, maybe 600 watts that at 4 ohms

I have also had the WT800 for 6 years, so saying folks who "have problems with Eden are unfamiliar with how Eden products work" is not accurate. Again, I maintain that with both these amps set flat, the Hartke sounds louder through my 212 alone than through the Eden with the 212 and 2 110's all stacked vertically.

[craig.p]

Originally Posted by dandbassman

I maintain that with both these amps set flat, the Hartke sounds louder through my 212 alone than through the Eden with the 212 and 2 110's all stacked vertically.

1) Invalid comparison -- more than one variable changed.

2) The Eden scenario is kneecapped from the start: You mixed non-identical cabs in the same frequency range. (Fighting this battle is becoming wearisome to me so I'll just leave it at that.)

[dandbassman]

Originally Posted by craig.p

1) Invalid comparison -- more than one variable changed.

2) The Eden scenario is kneecapped from the start: You mixed non-identical cabs in the same frequency range. (Fighting this battle is becoming wearisome to me so I'll just leave it at that.)

Enough with the kneecaps. I have heard all about phase cancellation with non-identical cabinets. I have stacked the speakers in different configurations and found that there is in fact some cancellation factor either running the 212 on its side or running the 2 110 cabs next to each other rather than vertically stacked. The Eden with the 3 cabs stacked vertically in the configuration I described driven at 4 ohms a side IS LOUDER than either side driven alone with the respective speaker(s), so I think that rules out potential frequency cancellation.

The 350 watt Hartke is louder through either a 4 ohm 212 cabinet OR the pair of CX110 cabs,( also a 4 ohm load) than the one side of the 400 watt Eden. I know 50 watts is not much power difference in terms of producing SPL or DB, but the apparent difference to my humble ears is quite noticeable.

It seems like I have gotten responses varyng from I don't know how to set the Eden to mixing apples and oranges with regard to speaker setups; a frustrating quandry for a simple question which was intended.

I shall simplify further:

The question is : identical speakers, 2 amp heads (set flat with identical gain and volume settings), and the less powerful amp is clearly louder. WHY?

[craig.p]

Ok, now I get it. I sense you've fallen into the trap of expecting two amps with their volumes and gains set identically to produce identical power levels.

At those identical settings, the amp that runs louder just happens to be providing more overall gain than the one that runs quieter. But it has nothing to do with either amp's volume potential.

[swspiers]

Originally Posted by dandbassman

Enough with the kneecaps. I have heard all about phase cancellation with non-identical cabinets. I have stacked the speakers in different configurations and found that there is in fact some cancellation factor either running the 212 on its side or running the 2 110 cabs next to each other rather than vertically stacked. The Eden with the 3 cabs stacked vertically in the configuration I described driven at 4 ohms a side IS LOUDER than either side driven alone with the respective speaker(s), so I think that rules out potential frequency cancellation.

The 350 watt Hartke is louder through either a 4 ohm 212 cabinet OR the pair of CX110 cabs,( also a 4 ohm load) than the one side of the 400 watt Eden. I know 50 watts is not much power difference in terms of producing SPL or DB, but the apparent difference to my humble ears is quite noticeable.

It seems like I have gotten responses varyng from I don't know how to set the Eden to mixing apples and oranges with regard to speaker setups; a frustrating quandry for a simple question which was intended.

I shall simplify further:

The question is : identical speakers, 2 amp heads (set flat with identical gain and volume settings), and the less powerful amp is clearly louder. WHY?

gain structure