Hartke hydrive 410

[R10FCB]

Hey TB
Some of you guys may have remembered my past posts of deciding which cab I should get for my Mesa M9 Carbine. The good news is that I have saved the money and it is time!
I thought I had made my decision on the GK neo 412, but then I saw the Hartke hydrive 410. What attracted me to it was not only was it cheaper than the GK but it is a 1000w amp which only weighs 32 kilos!! And portability is a huge plus in my books.
So I need your guys opinion one last time. I'm planning on buying one cab so if I do grab the Hartke it will be a stand alone cab rather than partnered with a 1x15. It is a 1000w amp which is perfect for my 900w head but I have heard it does not have the switchable 4 to 8 ohms (I think the mesa puts out 450w @ 8 ohms) will my Mesa still be effective with this cab? No damage will be done to my head or cab?
My knowledge regarding Bass stacks is quite low which is why I have come here and asked for your opinions so any advice or recommendations would help greatly. So what do you think, should I go with the Hartke or play it safe and get the Gallien Krueger?

[RickenBoogie]

Yes, get the 8 ohm version. There is virtualy no benefit to a 4 ohm 4x10, at 8 ohms, you'll still be quite loud.

[genstormbringer]

I had a Hydrive 410. I loved the cab but you will definitely notice the Aluminum cone sound. It does move a lot of air and you can gig it anywhere. The 412 would probably be a great cab too, I do not know I have never tried it. A/B them in your local store keep the one you like. However you would not be disappointed w the 410 it really thumps.

Me personally I wouldn't go for a 412 cab it's way to big to move unless your into that kinda thing. I would think a good 212 cab like a Dr. Bass 2460D would do the trick. That is 1000 watts at 4ohms and would sound better than the Hydrive 410. Why do you ask because I have a Dr. Bass 2460D and I used to A/B it w my Hydrive all the time and the Dr. Bass wins hands down for thump, tone, percussive response, and Hi-fidelity. Potability for the Dr. Bass is right there w the Hydrive so it's a win win for you. Just my opinion. I have had both for sale here the Hydrive is gone however the Dr. Bass still remains for sale here. I think you'll be happy w the Hydrive but for me the love affair is over.

Some 212 cabs will do what you want to be able to do.
I am A/B-ing the Dr. Bass cab I have w one I just bought the MarkBass Club 600F32 212 800watt 4ohm cab and the MB cab is winning this battle. It's 800 watts vs. 1000 watts in this race and there is no discernible difference in loudness. The MB cab is roughly the same weight but 6 inches taller it's just as wide and just as deep. I like 12's That is the bottom line for me.

I am sorry if I confused you but like I said the Hydrive is a nice cab for what it is. Good luck w your decision.

[R10FCB]

Ok thanks guys for the advice, I think I will go with the Hartke as it is the smaller cab which will help a lot for gigs and in the future when I have more money I can partner it with the 1x15.
Cheers!

[JimmyM]

Don't partner it with a 115. Partner it with a second 410. The idea that a 115 gives you lows that a 410 doesn't is called "engineering by looks." Plus it opens you up to weirdness such as unbalanced volume from each cab and phasing issues, and reduces your available output to what the 115 will do without blowing, which is a lot less than a 410. I love 10"s, and I love 15"s, and I have rigs with both. Separately, where they belong.

[R10FCB]

Thanks for the advice Jimmy, that will save me a lot of time, money and hassle.

[Son of Bovril]

any more comments on the Markbass 212 cab, I have searched but found very little about it on here

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Don't partner it with a 115. Partner it with a second 410. The idea that a 115 gives you lows that a 410 doesn't is called "engineering by looks."

Hydrive 15; 20Hz - 17Khz

Hartke — HyDrive 115

Hydrive 4x10; 30Hz - 17Khz

Hartke — HyDrive 410

If the 15/410 stack floats your boat, do it. The Kilo amp has a balance knob so you can even the two out (the 4x10 will be louder - the 15 goes deeper).

Sorry, hate to disagree, Jimmy.

The Hydrive stuff sounds REALLY good, and the price is ridiculous (cheap!). I'm getting some myself, and I'm a Bergsnob.

Cheers,
Cameron

[Dustin Teel]

In my opinion, the GK cab would be far superior in tone and volume.

[Windreaper]

Originally Posted by Bassflute

Hydrive 15; 20Hz - 17Khz

Hartke — HyDrive 115

Hydrive 4x10; 30Hz - 17Khz

Hartke — HyDrive 410

If the 15/410 stack floats your boat, do it. The Kilo amp has a balance knob so you can even the two out (the 4x10 will be louder - the 15 goes deeper).

Sorry, hate to disagree, Jimmy.

The Hydrive stuff sounds REALLY good, and the price is ridiculous (cheap!). I'm getting some myself, and I'm a Bergsnob.

Cheers,
Cameron

Talk about engineering by looks. Sorry, but neither of those cabs will have any usable output in the sub 50Hz range. Quoting usable response in the 20-30Hz range is beyond slightly dishonest (most portable PA subs don't have usable output that low!). Even if the 1x15 had a little more relative low end sensitivity the 4x10 would make up with larger displacement limited power handling.

[Aussie Player]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Don't partner it with a 115. Partner it with a second 410. The idea that a 115 gives you lows that a 410 doesn't is called "engineering by looks." Plus it opens you up to weirdness such as unbalanced volume from each cab and phasing issues, and reduces your available output to what the 115 will do without blowing, which is a lot less than a 410. I love 10"s, and I love 15"s, and I have rigs with both. Separately, where they belong.

I agree. I use a 500W head into 2x15's cab and a 350W head into a 4x10 and can balance the boxes to suit the room. Great clarity and flexibility. My best choice todate. Also like a straight 8x10 but harder to carry around. In a band with a road crew Id' go 2 x 410 cabs or a straight 8x10.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by Windreaper

Talk about engineering by looks. Sorry, but neither of those cabs will have any usable output in the sub 50Hz range. Quoting usable response in the 20-30Hz range is beyond slightly dishonest (most portable PA subs don't have usable output that low!). Even if the 1x15 had a little more relative low end sensitivity the 4x10 would make up with larger displacement limited power handling.

Sorry, I disagree with the 'usable low' statement. The 15 I heard goes VERY deep. And yes the 4x10 is probably louder and 'honkier', which is why the 15 would help smooth it out.

This was a famous combination in the 80's and 90's and we knew about phase cancellation, comb filtering, and all that stuff back then. Use a stereo amp, and a balance control, and a well designed 4x10 + 15 stack sounds great, and you get a different kind of bottom end from the 15 than you do from the tens.

Cheers,
Cameron

[gnjpowell]

I have the HX410 for over a year now and am still very happy with it. Paired it with a second HX410 for a gig and got tons of positive response. Tried pairing it with a HX115 and did not like the HX115 tone at all, too farty and airy. Sold the HX115 without ever gigging it. I also have Ampeg SVT-810 and 210AV cabs for comparison. I like "old school" tone but am still very happy with the HX410. I don't use the horn at all. The HX410 is an excellent tone/size/weight/price/value compromise.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by Bassflute

Hydrive 15; 20Hz - 17Khz

Hartke — HyDrive 115

Hydrive 4x10; 30Hz - 17Khz

Hartke — HyDrive 410

If the 15/410 stack floats your boat, do it. The Kilo amp has a balance knob so you can even the two out (the 4x10 will be louder - the 15 goes deeper).

Sorry, hate to disagree, Jimmy.

The Hydrive stuff sounds REALLY good, and the price is ridiculous (cheap!). I'm getting some myself, and I'm a Bergsnob.

Cheers,
Cameron

Bit of an ecological fallacy there...while the Hartke 1x15 may go slightly deeper than its 4x10 brother, that doesn't mean that 15s are inherently deeper than 10s. It just means the Hartke 1x15 has a deeper response range than the 4x10. There was a time period when 1x15s and 4x10s were often made to compliment each other. This was back in the day before full-range 4x10s were readily available and bi-amping was the cool thing to do. I'm thinking of the Eden T series of cabinets, for example. Nowadays, I rarely ever hear of a bass player bi-amping because of the availability of quality full-range cabinets. It's a lot of hassle for little reward.

For the record, when I bought my HyDrive 4x10, for S&G, I did decide to try it with the 1x15. I didn't care for the pairing at all. The 1x15 overshadowed the punch of the 4x10 and the whole rig sounded a lot more sluggish to my ears.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

Bit of an ecological fallacy there...while the Hartke 1x15 may go slightly deeper than its 4x10 brother, that doesn't mean that 15s are inherently deeper than 10s. It just means the Hartke 1x15 has a deeper response range than the 4x10. There was a time period when 1x15s and 4x10s were often made to compliment each other. This was back in the day before full-range 4x10s were readily available and bi-amping was the cool thing to do. I'm thinking of the Eden T series of cabinets, for example. Nowadays, I rarely ever hear of a bass player bi-amping because of the availability of quality full-range cabinets. It's a lot of hassle for little reward.

For the record, when I bought my HyDrive 4x10, for S&G, I did decide to try it with the 1x15. I didn't care for the pairing at all. The 1x15 overshadowed the punch of the 4x10 and the whole rig sounded a lot more sluggish to my ears.

I play back pickup only a lot, and fretless, so with that much midrange happening already, MOST 4x10 cabs are honky to the extreme for me. That's why I like the 15's, and also why I would use a 15 with the 4x10, to round it out a little more. If you're a player who plays both pickups, and up near the fingerboard a lot, you probably like the aded punch of the 4x10.

And bi-amping has a lot more plusses than what have been portrayed here; bass frequencies can distort with few audible artifacts, and the high frequencies can stay clean, lots of plusses. Most PA cabs are bi-amped these days, at least.

And I certainly wouldn't describe the horrid midrange honk of most 4x10 as 'full-range'. Run a mike through one, or a piano, and get a singer to sing into it, you'll see how 'full range' they are. You'll have to EQ the crap out of it to get it to sound decent. They are voiced for the average electric bass player, nickel strings, both pickups, played around the middle, etc., IMHO. Horrible bloody things, for the most part.

Different strokes...

Cheers,
Cameron

[JimiLL]

Originally Posted by Bassflute

I play back pickup only a lot, and fretless, so with that much midrange happening already, MOST 4x10 cabs are honky to the extreme for me. That's why I like the 15's, and also why I would use a 15 with the 4x10, to round it out a little more. If you're a player who plays both pickups, and up near the fingerboard a lot, you probably like the aded punch of the 4x10.

And bi-amping has a lot more plusses than what have been portrayed here; bass frequencies can distort with few audible artifacts, and the high frequencies can stay clean, lots of plusses. Most PA cabs are bi-amped these days, at least.

And I certainly wouldn't describe the horrid midrange honk of most 4x10 as 'full-range'. Run a mike through one, or a piano, and get a singer to sing into it, you'll see how 'full range' they are. You'll have to EQ the crap out of it to get it to sound decent. They are voiced for the average electric bass player, nickel strings, both pickups, played around the middle, etc., IMHO. Horrible bloody things, for the most part.

Different strokes...

Cheers,
Cameron

Im curious as to what kind of 410's you have used before

[walterw]

and to why you haven't noticed the near continuous TB threads, with posts from both experienced players and real engineering types, explaining why mis-matching cabs is not so great?

[walterw]

speaking of hartke, where is their hydrive 2x10?

a switchable 4Ω/16Ω 2x10 box, tuned to properly phase-match the 4x10, would be awesome!

set it on top of the 410, switch it to 16Ω, and you've got a kick-butt 5.3Ω 1500w 6x10 cab, with equal power going to all 6 speakers.

set it to 4Ω and you've got a nice little 500 watt box for small gigs.

[will33]

"15's are this and 10's are that".....wwaaayyyy too many people listening with their eyes here.


OP, ..."amp"and "head" are the same thing. "Cab" and "speaker" are the same thing. A cab or speaker is not an amp. Cabs or speakers don't put out power, they recieve it from the amp. The "wattage rating" is pretty well useless as most cabs will hit their limits at roughly half that. Whoever's 800 vs. 1000 watt cab comparison that was is pointless.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by JimiLL

Im curious as to what kind of 410's you have used before

I have used extensively at festivals and other gigs with back line:

Trace 4x10
Eden 410XST
Eden 4x10XLT
Ampeg 4x10
Hartke aluminum cone 4x10

I have tried many others in music stores.

Originally Posted by walterw

and to why you haven't noticed the near continuous TB threads, with posts from both experienced players and real engineering types, explaining why mis-matching cabs is not so great?

Having played my first paying gig in 1971, and still actively making my living playing/teaching the electric bass, I qualify as an experienced player, and have played through enough gear to form an educated opinion. And while I don't usually like mismatched cabs, SOME combinations are good in the right setting and used by somebody knowledgeable. Like a good 2x10/15 set, a 4x10/15, and even a 410/18 as long as it's bi-amped properly with a carefully chosen crossover point.

Cheers,
Cameron