Have 2 cabs and need help shopping for a head

CarvinBassist · #1 09-06-2011, 12:20 AM

This will be my first legit bass rig and i'm not quite sure what kind of head to get. I have an Eden 115 cab that can handle 200w and 8ohm, an eden 210t cab that can handle 250w at 8ohms, an active 6 string bass, and a hip hop band that consists of a rapper, drummer, and myself. I got these cabs for tone but i also need to be heard. Help!

JimmyM · #2 09-06-2011, 12:49 AM

500w head should do it. Just watch your volume so you don't blow your cabs.

CarvinBassist · #3 09-06-2011, 03:16 PM

Cool thanks. How will I know if I'm cranking it too hard?

scottfeldstein · #4 09-06-2011, 03:21 PM

When you thump a low B and your amp sounds like a farting elephant, you're cranking it to high. At that point, turn down and/or turn the bass down on the EQ.

Punk player21 · #5 09-06-2011, 03:26 PM

Ampeg. That's what I use, the SVT-6 pro is pricey but well worth the money. The head uses up to 8ohm and then 4ohm. It's really easy to use and lightweight.

CarvinBassist · #6 09-06-2011, 03:37 PM

I was thinking about an swr workingman. I want something really versatile though. Also looking at carvin bx500s.

Bass_Pounder · #7 09-06-2011, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinBassist

This will be my first legit bass rig and i'm not quite sure what kind of head to get. I have an Eden 115 cab that can handle 200w and 8ohm, an eden 210t cab that can handle 250w at 8ohms, an active 6 string bass, and a hip hop band that consists of a rapper, drummer, and myself. I got these cabs for tone but i also need to be heard. Help!

The only real problem I se here is that you say you need to be heard.

Running those 2 cabs together gives you a MAX output of 400 watts (you use your lowest rated cab, and double it since they will equally split the output from the head).

The downside is that those wattage ratings are the thermal limits - not the mechanical limits of the speakers which is usually around 1/2 the thermal rating.

This means that your rig will be "mechanically" limited to around 200-250 watts before your speakers start crying for help.

If you are playing a 6 string, and use lots of low end EQ'ing, you may need some more robust cabs.

Rockmusician · #8 09-06-2011, 03:46 PM

If you are using Eden cabs, I would try an Eden WT550 head

AwkwardLoudness · #9 09-06-2011, 04:21 PM

Speaker cab power ratings are typically meaningless, so you might have 200 watts (or less) of useful power with those cabs. Speaker excursion limits will determine the power ceiling at a given EQ setting. Ignore the numbers on your cab. Also, a 1x15 cab and a 2x10 are mis-matched, so comb filtering and cancellation of some frequencies will be the result.

Mic one of those cabs into a PA system if you want to be heard loudly.

CarvinBassist · #10 09-06-2011, 04:28 PM

What do you mean the cabs are mismatched?

Bass_Pounder · #11 09-06-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinBassist

What do you mean the cabs are mismatched?

One has 10's, the other a 15"

At least they are a close match as far as acoustic output goes though.

CarvinBassist · #12 09-06-2011, 04:45 PM

Why would a cancellation of frequencies result from mismatched speakers? The reason I was drooling over this set up was because of the range I could get with this configuration and my 6 string.

scottfeldstein · #13 09-06-2011, 04:55 PM

Most people agree that, unless you're using a crossover to split your signal, it's safest to use matched cabs. Plenty of people do ignore this common wisdom to no ill effects. But it is the common wisdom.

I also share the concerns of Bass Pounder above. Stage volume can vary a lot between bands. If you are in a loud band, you may struggle to be heard the way you want to with the speakers you have. But maybe not! Some bands just don't play that loud. I guess you'll find out

A 500w head should be enough, though. Unless you're playing at stadium volume in a metal band or something. I myself have a GK MB500. Weighs less than 4 pounds. If you want small, light and solid state I recommend it.

Zoa · #14 09-06-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinBassist

Why would a cancellation of frequencies result from mismatched speakers? The reason I was drooling over this set up was because of the range I could get with this configuration and my 6 string.

Because of phase. This was originally posted by Bill Fitzmaurice, one of the best loudspeaker designers in the business:

Quote:

The assumption is often made that tens, twelves and fifteens each have a characteristic tone and/or frequency response, so using one from column A and one from column B will give you a 'best of both worlds' result. That assumption is just plain wrong. There is no difference in either tone or frequency response that can be attributed to driver size in and of itself. Where the average musical instrument driver is concerned there's actually very little difference between the three sizes. But there are differences in the phase responses of different drivers and cabs, even different cabs loaded with the same driver, and when you mix and match them the results are at best unpredictable, the worst case being the cabs will detract from each other as much as they augment each other. So if you must take on item from column A and one from column B do so it a Chinese restaurant, not a music store.

That's not to say that there isn't any benefit in using different size drivers together. There's a great deal of benefit in that when the drivers are dedicated woofers/midranges/tweeters with a crossover insuring that each operates only in their own bandwidth.

CarvinBassist · #15 09-06-2011, 05:28 PM

Wow, ill keep that in mind next time. Thanks for the heads up, Zoa! Still feel like I got these keeps for a steal though, ($400 for the pair).

nashman · #16 09-06-2011, 05:36 PM

You are kind of reverse engineering a bit. Assuming the cabs purchased are a given, I would also suggest an Eden WT550, which would be a good match for those cabs. You will be running at 4 ohm with 2x8 ohm cabs. The WT550 can handle 2 ohm (that's how I run mine) which means you could potentially add 2 more 8 ohm cabs if you wanted to and pull all 750 watts from the WT550.

Stumbo · #17 09-06-2011, 05:40 PM

I don't know what your budget is but Check this Crown amp out: Crown XLS1000 DriveCore Series Power Amp and more Live Power Amplifiers at GuitarCenter.com. It's not very expensive for the watts/features.

It has a built in crossover/dsp so you can send the lows to one cab and the highs to another.

Put pre-amp pedal in front of it and you're ready to go. You'll be able to get each cab to give it's max performance. Try the lows with the 10's and then the 15 to get an idea of what you can do.

JimmyM · #18 09-06-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinBassist

Wow, ill keep that in mind next time. Thanks for the heads up, Zoa! Still feel like I got these keeps for a steal though, ($400 for the pair).

Well you can still make it work, though. Best thing to do is stack the 115 on the bottom and put the 210 on top vertically with the middle of the speakers all lined up. That will result in the least amount of destructive interference and will also likely sound the best.

And as long as everyone's suggesting heads, I'd suggest an Ampeg PF500

BassNGuns · #19 09-06-2011, 05:52 PM

This really sucks!
I just ordered a Markbass 102p 2x10 cabinet and a 151p 1x15
cabinet from GC to go with an LM3 head.
And now it may not sound right?
Why the heck would Markbass say that this is a good combination on their sight?

JimmyM · #20 09-06-2011, 06:01 PM

Because a lot of bass players see little speakers and think "highs," and they see big speakers and think "lows," and companies are in the business of selling cabs, so they play into it, even though it's a myth.

However, it's possible that they could work well together. If they have similar phase relationships and move similar amounts of air (a 115 and 210 do), then they will sound good together. The only problem is it's unpredictable.