Head or Cab first?

[tubaman2]

Already posted a thread today, but thought I would make a separate one for this. I'm upgrading my rig, but I'm a poor college kid. This means that I have no money and can only get it by selling stuff, and I have a gig in March that'll pay a couple hundred bucks. My question is whether I should get a new head or cab first. I can't get both at the same time. Right now I'm leaning towards Cab first, because I don't want an overpowered head for my cabs, but I thought I would get some more opinions from people who know more than me.

[Marton]

What do you use right now ? That could help with your decision...

[audiomitch]

What do you have now? How loud do you need to be? What size of gigs do you usually play? What kind of music?

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by tubaman2

My question is whether I should get a new head or cab first.

There is no universal "right" or "wrong" to this question. And no particular way to advise you, without some context from you. Only real answer is one that doesn't help you much: "It depends".

Have you given any thought to the head and cab(s) you'd ultimately like to get? And according to what criteria do you intend to select them?

Have you developed any particular gear acquisition strategy yet? If not, I suggest you start thinking about what you want to acquire - and the reasons why.

MM

[tubaman2]

Right now I'm using a GK Backline 600, a Peavey Tour 1x15, and an Acoustic 4x10. Right now I'm just playing at church, but next summer should be starting to play gigs in a lot of varied places, indoors and outdoors. The gig in march is in an art center that seats about 1500-2000. I'm having trouble deciding between the GK MB Fusion, The GK 700rb, and the Markbass tube 800. For a cab, I'm thinking the GK 2x12 neo, if I can find a deal on the 4x12, I would definitely get that. The style I'm playing is a more modern rock. I'm using a fuzz most of the time, looking for a sound similar, but certainly not identical, to Muse's bassist.

[Marton]

Do plan on buying new ?

Because if you buy used, you could have both for the price of either one new...

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by Marton

Do plan on buying new ?

Because if you buy used, you could have both for the price of either one new...

I would only buy new if I couldn't find a good used deal. I found the 4x12 for $450 on Craigslist, which is ridiculous. The problem is that unless I can get a bass sold fast, it'll probably disappear before I have the money.

[IntrepidCellist]

Check out the Talkbass classifieds. Amazing deals on all types of gear across the spectrum.

[tubaman2]

Thank you for the advice guys. But suppose hypothetically I would still have to get them at different times, which would you get first?

[subexpression]

Originally Posted by tubaman2

Right now I'm using a GK Backline 600, a Peavey Tour 1x15, and an Acoustic 4x10. Right now I'm just playing at church, but next summer should be starting to play gigs in a lot of varied places, indoors and outdoors. The gig in march is in an art center that seats about 1500-2000. I'm having trouble deciding between the GK MB Fusion, The GK 700rb, and the Markbass tube 800. For a cab, I'm thinking the GK 2x12 neo, if I can find a deal on the 4x12, I would definitely get that. The style I'm playing is a more modern rock. I'm using a fuzz most of the time, looking for a sound similar, but certainly not identical, to Muse's bassist.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
GK Backline 600 is 300W @4Ω
Peavy Tour 1x15 (cabinet, not combo) is 700W @8Ω
Acoustic 4x10 is 400W @8Ω
If this is right, then you may need an amp which can deliver at least 1100W@4Ω.

This means your GK is at risk for clipping if you drive it too hard since the two cabs are going to demand more than the amp can deliver.

I would much rather go the opposite direction: get an overpowered amp and just watch for over-excursion of your drivers.

This is what I do right now. I have 200W@8Ω 1x15 and 400W@8Ω 4x10, but I drive them with two separate 500W 8Ω channels on my stereo power amp. 1000W gives me plenty of headroom. And, if I want to upgrade my cabinets in the future, my amp can keep up just fine. It will push up to 2100W in bridge-mono.

I suggest getting an amp which can match the impedance of your cabinets, but have lots of watts left over. I mean, you don't have to drive the hell out of the cabinets...just watch the drivers so they're not pumping like pistons.

The GK MB Fusion (500W@4Ω) will only afford you an extra 200W. The GK 700RB is about the same, but the MB Fusion seems like a better head. The Markbass Tube 800 is the best of your 3 picks, with 800W@4Ω.

But still, you can drive those cabinets a lot harder than you think. Don't be afraid to get a head with more watts than your cabinets are rated to handle. You just have to watch the drivers for over excursion...too much linear motoring.

If you've got plenty of headroom left, your drivers are tight, and you're nice & loud...remember your amp's volume level and you're good to go with no worries of clipping.

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by subexpression

Correct me if I'm wrong...
GK Backline 600 is 300W @4Ω
Peavy Tour 1x15 (cabinet, not combo) is 700W @8Ω
Acoustic 4x10 is 400W @8Ω
If this is right, then you may need an amp which can deliver at least 1100W@4Ω.

This means your GK is at risk for clipping if you drive it too hard since the two cabs are going to demand more than the amp can deliver.

I would much rather go the opposite direction: get an overpowered amp and just watch for over-excursion of your drivers.

This is what I do right now. I have 200W@8Ω 1x15 and 400W@8Ω 4x10, but I drive them with two separate 500W 8Ω channels on my stereo power amp. 1000W gives me plenty of headroom. And, if I want to upgrade my cabinets in the future, my amp can keep up just fine. It will push up to 2100W in bridge-mono.

I suggest getting an amp which can match the impedance of your cabinets, but have lots of watts left over. I mean, you don't have to drive the hell out of the cabinets...just watch the drivers so they're not pumping like pistons.

The GK MB Fusion (500W@4Ω) will only afford you an extra 200W. The GK 700RB is about the same, but the MB Fusion seems like a better head. The Markbass Tube 800 is the best of your 3 picks, with 800W@4Ω.

But still, you can drive those cabinets a lot harder than you think. Don't be afraid to get a head with more watts than your cabinets are rated to handle. You just have to watch the drivers for over excursion...too much linear motoring.

If you've got plenty of headroom left, your drivers are tight, and you're nice & loud...remember your amp's volume level and you're good to go with no worries of clipping.

Thank you, that thoroughly answered my question. It also mostly answered my question about amps. I think I just need to decide if I like the GK sound enough to settle with lower wattage.

[cyclomatic]

Originally Posted by tubaman2

Right now I'm using a GK Backline 600, a Peavey Tour 1x15, and an Acoustic 4x10. ................... I'm having trouble deciding between the GK MB Fusion, The GK 700rb, and the Markbass tube 800. For a cab, I'm thinking the GK 2x12 neo, if I can find a deal on the 4x12, I would definitely get that.

Well, let me say, if really don't have to purchase seperately. Save patiently, all the while watching and hopefully testing what your looking for. Just because you have money for one now and not the other doesn't mean you have to spend it now!

However, you seem pressed for an answer. I would always pick up the head first. Reason being your able to get familiar with it and begin to plan what effects if any, what cabs, what watts etc.
Getting another cab to add to the mixed bunch you have already, IMO, won't do much except maybe start to limit (in you mind) your head and/or power options.

I myself, the Black Friday weekend, scored a Carvin BX500 for $329 ($70 off) then the following week quite amazingly found two insane deals on cabs. Amazon had the Warwick WCA 410 PRO (not the newer 411) for $259!!! They also had the WCA 6x10 for $414!!! The next day they had sold out the 3 4x10's and the remaining 6x10 dropped to $396 or something.

Save your cash, be patient, keep your eyes open and be ready to pull the trigger for the very best deal for you.

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by cyclomatic

Well, let me say, if really don't have to purchase seperately. Save patiently, all the while watching and hopefully testing what your looking for. Just because you have money for one now and not the other doesn't mean you have to spend it now!

However, you seem pressed for an answer. I would always pick up the head first. Reason being your able to get familiar with it and begin to plan what effects if any, what cabs, what watts etc.
Getting another cab to add to the mixed bunch you have already, IMO, won't do much except maybe start to limit (in you mind) your head and/or power options.

I myself, the Black Friday weekend, scored a Carvin BX500 for $329 ($70 off) then the following week quite amazingly found two insane deals on cabs. Amazon had the Warwick WCA 410 PRO (not the newer 411) for $259!!! They also had the WCA 8x10 for $414!!! The next day they had sold out the 3 4x10's and the remaining 6x10 dropped to $396 or something.

Save your cash, be patient, keep your eyes open and be ready to pull the trigger for the very best deal for you.

Thanks! The problem is that I'm recording next april in a session I'm not too concerned about, but then at the start of June my actual band is recording, which is hugely important to me! So I'll basically have to take what I can get, which means I may have to wait on new cabs. Thank you for your answer though, now I know to go ahead and get the head first.

[subexpression]

You're quite welcome!

I purchased a used Crown XLS 802D power amp...you know, just a plain PA amp.
Then I purchased a Sansamp RPM preamp.
Both together cost me ~$700.
It's such a kick butt rig...I get giddy thinking about it!

Going this route was risky, because I had no idea what it would sound like. But honestly, it was the best decision I have made. I'll never turn back to buying pre+power all-in-one amps. Though there are some great ones which sound awesome, I just think I can achieve what I need with two separate units (pre & power) and far cheaper.

It took me quite a while to really get a grasp on what I needed and why I needed it.
I searched for countless hours on forums, retail sites, etc. just to piece together my game plan for my current system. In the process, I learned a ton about amps & cabinets. I also learned quite a bit about the common myths such as "overpowered amps."

In my experience, I've had more close calls with clipping an underpowered amp than driver over-excursion with an overpowered amp. One time, I drove my SWR to clip and it blew out a diode...had to get it repaired. The problem was it's a 400W@4Ω amp pushing two cabinets with a combined total of 600W...clipping was destined to happen when I turned up the volume. Underpowered amps almost invite you cross the line. My SWR's volume wouldn't get any louder after about 50%, and I was lured by my lust for power to keep pushing it though until *pop* ...amp death.

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by subexpression

You're quite welcome!

I purchased a used Crown XLS 802D power amp...you know, just a plain PA amp.
Then I purchased a Sansamp RPM preamp.
Both together cost me ~$700.
It's such a kick butt rig...I get giddy thinking about it!

Going this route was risky, because I had no idea what it would sound like. But honestly, it was the best decision I have made. I'll never turn back to buying pre+power all-in-one amps. Though there are some great ones which sound awesome, I just think I can achieve what I need with two separate units (pre & power) and far cheaper.

It took me quite a while to really get a grasp on what I needed and why I needed it.
I searched for countless hours on forums, retail sites, etc. just to piece together my game plan for my current system. In the process, I learned a ton about amps & cabinets. I also learned quite a bit about the common myths such as "overpowered amps."

In my experience, I've had more close calls with clipping an underpowered amp than driver over-excursion with an overpowered amp. One time, I drove my SWR to clip and it blew out a diode...had to get it repaired. The problem was it's a 400W@4Ω amp pushing two cabinets with a combined total of 600W...clipping was destined to happen when I turned up the volume. Underpowered amps almost invite you cross the line. My SWR's volume wouldn't get any louder after about 50%, and I was lured by my lust for power to keep pushing it though until *pop* ...amp death.

I haven't had any trouble like that yet. I used a GK goldline 1x15 for a few weeks a few years ago. I blew it up, had it replaced, then blew that one up. Went to the peavey and had no trouble. I think I may have a blown or damaged 10 on the acoustic, but it may not be from over-exertion, or it may not be a speaker problem at all, but it does sound like just one of the 10s. I appreciate the in-depth help I'm getting from you guys. I'll be coming here for all my questions now.

[tjh]

You have PA support for the 1500-2000 seat joint?? ... in all honesty, your second sentence pretty much makes the choice of what to do ... you are a poor college kid (your words, not mine) ... dont be selling stuff to buy stuff and trying to buy the ultimate rig at this point ... you have decent stuff, not perfect, but I have seen a LOT of pro's working with what you have or less ... with all due respect, its priorities, and your job at this point is to get that piece of paper in hand to get that job that lets you buy your ultimate rig, when you know what it is ... now when you are unsure what to do, and even if you are able to financially, work with what you have, and find ways to make due until the deal you just cant pass up comes along, or until you are set a bit more ... its none of my business, but if you are living on your own, you need every cent you have, and you arent going to make any more money with boutique gear than with what you have now, you will only spend more, and be making less ... and if you are living at home with the folks, you need to be stashing away all you can, and out working to help that cause... Not meaning to sound rude or condescending, just realistic after having lived close to 3x what you have and been where you are, many times ... you have decent stuff, in fact probably more than enough to make a buck, have fun, play music and make records, etc ... not what anyone wants to hear, but sometimes priorities aren't the most comfortable option ... JMHO from a very old guy, that made a lot of mistakes and tries to help others avoid them when possible ...

BTW, you using that whole rig in church??

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by tjh

You have PA support for the 1500-2000 seat joint?? ... in all honesty, your second sentence pretty much makes the choice of what to do ... you are a poor college kid (your words, not mine) ... dont be selling stuff to buy stuff and trying to buy the ultimate rig at this point ... you have decent stuff, not perfect, but I have seen a LOT of pro's working with what you have or less ... with all due respect, its priorities, and your job at this point is to get that piece of paper in hand to get that job that lets you buy your ultimate rig, when you know what it is ... now when you are unsure what to do, and even if you are able to financially, work with what you have, and find ways to make due until the deal you just cant pass up comes along, or until you are set a bit more ... its none of my business, but if you are living on your own, you need every cent you have, and you arent going to make any more money with boutique gear than with what you have now, you will only spend more, and be making less ... and if you are living at home with the folks, you need to be stashing away all you can, and out working to help that cause... Not meaning to sound rude or condescending, just realistic after having lived close to 3x what you have and been where you are, many times ... you have decent stuff, in fact probably more than enough to make a buck, have fun, play music and make records, etc ... not what anyone wants to hear, but sometimes priorities aren't the most comfortable option ... JMHO from a very old guy, that made a lot of mistakes and tries to help others avoid them when possible ...

BTW, you using that whole rig in church??

Yes, I do. lol. Actually, just at my home church, the church I go to when I'm at college has everyone use a little acoustic combo as a monitor and we basically run through the house system. I understand what you mean about having fun and making friends. The difference is that I'm looking at this as a career, it's literally what I'm studying in college lol. Music Industry major. If the band route doesn't work out, I'll be producing, so anything I can do to make a name for myself. Plus I'm one of those guys who believes you shouldn't make anything work too hard or be too strained, and that includes riffs, melodies, etc. Stuff should play itself. I would rather not have to make make my rig work, I want it to work for me. That being said, I appreciate your realism and practical approach, I mean the rig is only going to work as well as I do no matter what anyway, right? lol

[subexpression]

Originally Posted by tjh

You have PA support for the 1500-2000 seat joint?? ... in all honesty, your second sentence pretty much makes the choice of what to do...

I thought the same thing. Because tubaman2 will probably have a PA available, he could run directly into the mixer with his XLR line out. Then, stage volume would be what he normally uses, plus have the support of the PA, subs, crossovers, etc.

I looked at the GK Backline 600, and it has an XLR out on the front of the chassis.

It might be a good idea to find out what sort of PA will be available for the March show.

[tubaman2]

Originally Posted by subexpression

I thought the same thing. Because tubaman2 will probably have a PA available, he could run directly into the mixer with his XLR line out. Then, stage volume would be what he normally uses, plus have the support of the PA, subs, crossovers, etc.

I looked at the GK Backline 600, and it has an XLR out on the front of the chassis.

It might be a good idea to find out what sort of PA will be available for the March show.

That venue will definitely have PA support, it's like The Appalachian Arts Center or something like that. We may be opening for Thousand Foot Krutch if you know who they are, so they would definitely require a good system. I'm not too awful worried about that show, because it's basically just something a guy from church asked me and my guitarist to do with him. What I'm really worried about is the recording session at the start of the summer. We're recording with JD Miller, whose won some Dove awards and a grammy, so I want to get the most out of that situation while the opportunity is still here.

[nicoli]

Honestly I wouldn't be too concerned about the recording session - the studio will probably have better sounding gear available to use than you own, and the probability of using a direct signal over an amped one is also large. Plus you can always rent a dream rig for a day while you lay down your tracks for far cheaper than needing to buy it if you are dead set on a nice mic'd recording tone. Going into the studio I would be more concerned about the sound of my bass than the sound of my amp.