Head suggestion for a doubler (electric & upright bass)?

jebo · #1 01-01-2011, 06:38 PM

I have been using an eden wt-400 for almost 8 years and I love how it sounds with electric basses, but I don't seem to like how it sounds as much for upright bass.

I have been thinking about investing in a acoustic instrument pre-amp, but getting a new head all together that is good for both instruments might make more sense.

any suggestions?

ricky · #2 01-01-2011, 06:45 PM

Gk does a better job as a doubling rig. Maybe a 700 rb w a pair of 12's or a 410. Even better may be gens Benz shuttle with 12 extension cab. Definitely get a preamplifier too.

GrowlerBox · #3 01-01-2011, 06:48 PM

I believe the Genz Benz Shuttle heads are well-voiced for upright -- I wish I could remember where I read that! EA makes a "Doubler" head. I haven't used either, but these may be a good place to start the search.

msmucr · #4 01-01-2011, 07:19 PM

Hello,

my recommendation also goes to Genz Benz. Friend of mine regulary use it with amplified DB and electric upright - sounds great.
Shuttle Max heads have also advantage of two channels (FET and Valve) with independent gain and tone controls, so it's very convenient for switching of two instruments like DB and bass guitar during gig.

If you thinking about preamp route and keeping your current head, i would try Fishman Pro-EQ Platinum Bass (http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=43) it is affordable, handy and as a soundman i have good experience with it. In that way, i would try to use it's output for feeding of FX return on your head, to bypass Edens preamp (power section of SS head are usually clean, and most sonic character of head is imparted by preamp section).

Best regards

Michal

**Jeremy Allen** · #5 01-01-2011, 07:45 PM

The Genz-Benz Shuttle amps are perfect for doublers. If I had tried one before I bought my EA Doubler, I wouldn't have gone for the EA.

I liked how my WT400 sounded with double bass, but I don't remember how I tweaked the EQ (I know I stayed away from the Contour control). I've actually found that most high-quailty amps will sound pretty great with both--the GK 400/700/800/1001RB, the Aguilar AG500, Eden stuff, the simpler solid-state Ampeg heads--and that the cabinet may be the more serious consideration. The best doubling amp I ever owned was, of course, a Walter Woods, but those are pricey. I've used the Acoustic Image heads and currently own an EA Doubler, and while the features and size of those two lines are great, the bass guitar sound is pretty sterile (and the Class D power ratings seem a little fishy).

jebo · #6 01-01-2011, 07:59 PM

hmmm...maybe I should try some more tweaking with the wt-400.

Jeremy, whats your opinion on acoustic pre-amps like the fishman one suggested?

wellso74 · #7 01-01-2011, 08:05 PM

EA doubler

chuck3 · #8 01-01-2011, 08:56 PM

strong vote for Genz Benz here. I've never seen heads so versatile for both EBG and upright.

JimmyM · #9 01-01-2011, 11:12 PM

svt/810e or b-15n.

i'm sure a lot of you think i'm kidding. i assure you hand to god that i'm not. you should be able to get a good sound using any amp on the market. but i never heard my upright come to life the way it did when i got my vintage ampegs restored a couple years ago. there's a certain faction of upright players who say you should never use a tube amp or cab without tweeters. they're totally full of crap.

edit: that's not to say there aren't great ss heads out there. there are, most definitely, many of which have been named.

Will Kelly · #10 01-01-2011, 11:16 PM

I love my Acoustic Image head, it sounds great with my electric and of course the upright. I can run my upright with either my realist or underwood directly in without a preamp.

Try an AI head if you can.

Kael · #11 01-01-2011, 11:24 PM

Start with a fishman pro platinum bass eq. That box really helps out IME. It also helps immensely with fighting feedback. If you still need to swap amps later, so be it. At least you'll have a great DB oriented preamp.

PS: I use a fishman into a thunderfunk 550 with positive results.

edit: No affiliation with this sale, but there's a fishman for sale over on the db side of tb.
Fishman Pro EQ Platinum Bass Premium Preamp EQ DI

zombywoof5050 · #12 01-02-2011, 09:54 AM

Acoustic Image Clarus+

http://www.acousticimg.com/products/prod_clarus.html

christw · #13 01-02-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

svt/810e or b-15n.

i'm sure a lot of you think i'm kidding. i assure you hand to god that i'm not. you should be able to get a good sound using any amp on the market. but i never heard my upright come to life the way it did when i got my vintage ampegs restored a couple years ago. there's a certain faction of upright players who say you should never use a tube amp or cab without tweeters. they're totally full of crap.

edit: that's not to say there aren't great ss heads out there. there are, most definitely, many of which have been named.

I don't disagree with you on the SVT. My II sounds killer with my upright. I also like my 1001RB-II but I haven't given it the upright rundown except through my E140.

OP, what pickup are you using? I'm using a Six Rounds Double Barrel (two piece bridge wing piezo) and it hasn't sounded bad through anything yet.

**Jeremy Allen** · #14 01-03-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jebo

Jeremy, whats your opinion on acoustic pre-amps like the fishman one suggested?

I've never used the Fishman preamp; in my experience, preamps definitely can help, depending on which pickup you're using: Fishman BP100, Underwood, KK BassMax, and some others definitely need a preamp because the impedance of the amp's input is generally too low for a piezo and without a preamp they sound thin and rattly; the Realist benefits from one because the signal can be too low from those, and depending on your bass you may want to use a HPF or conversely add in some bass frequencies to get the best sound.

Amps like the Acoustic Image and the EA Doubler have high impedance inputs, rendering a preamp kind of unnecessary for impedance matching. But you still may want to use one: I've found that double bassists and their amp manufacturers have gotten all hung up on "natural and transparent" tone, with the idea being that you need to represent the true tone of the bass. Unfortunately, the signal from a piezo pickup has nothing to do with the "true tone" of the bass, and that signal often needs some coloration, to my ears. That's why, to me, the GK MB150 head actually sounds better for double bass than does the EA Doubler, when both are run through the same cabinet.

So by that token, the preamp that I've had the most success with for the double bass is actually the Sadowsky outboard preamp (the old, non-DI one).

Oh also--Jimmy M. is totally right, huge old tube amps are perfect for upright bass...some of the best amplified tones I've ever had came from SVTs and B15s, and one of my students has great luck using a Fender Bassman 20 combo with his upright (if you ever see one of those, tell me! finder's fee and everything). I remember rolling my eyes the first time I went to a session and saw an SVT/8x10. But then I plugged into it...

Tampabass · #15 01-03-2011, 08:13 AM

I've had a good experience using my Markbass LM2 for both upright and electric.

**Chef** · #16 01-03-2011, 08:29 AM

Man, this is a *really* personal deal, as one man's great DB sound is another mans horrid DB sound.
I liked the wt800b ok, I preferred the Thunderfunk to that, but these days I'm using a Mesa Walkabout.

There are sooo many variables in your db signal chain...mic? pickup? both, and blended?
Where's your pickup? Bridge wing? Under a bridge leg?

I can't etll you how many different combinations of stuff I've tried til I ended up with something that worked for me.

ninepoundjammer · #17 01-03-2011, 08:29 AM

I'm getting a very good upright sound using my EA Doubler / Bergantino HT112ER rig (Realist pup). I use a VT Bass to "Ampeg it up" for bass guitar and it sounds great. It's plenty loud for me. No GAS now.

When I'm not using an amp I use a Baggs Para DI which is certainly worth consideration as a preamp.

Chasarms · #18 01-03-2011, 09:00 AM

I have done a BUNCH of doubling gigs. It is my experience that you can use about any amp as long as you have the gear to get everything else set up correctly. I think the trick is to EQ the amp as flat to the room as possible.

I use a preamp on my DB with a Fishman Full Circle. I use the LR Baggs Para-Acoustic DI. It works awesome. When I played a passive bass, I also used a preamp on the EBG. The Sadowsky pre works great on the electric bass also. With active basses, I don't bother.

I keep the DB preamp in front of a Morley A/B/Y box for switching. It works very well for me. If you are going any arco, you may want to also use a volume pedal to balance the output. (If you have access to one)

If you can, I would still send two lines to the board. One for the DB and one for the EBG. Both the Baggs and the Sadowsky preamps are great in that they have XPR outputs.

WalterBush · #19 01-03-2011, 09:06 AM

I use the same preamp for my electric and upright bass, a Summit Audio TD-100. Works great.

My old bass teacher plays electric and DB, mostly DB, and gets great results out of his Walter Woods going into an old GK cabinet, both instruments plugged in at the same time. Don't know what model, though.