Hello CARVIN: plz sell the MB Micro head by itself

[tocs100]

I give-up finding a good used head in the $200--$275 range shipped:
1) Non-USA Ampeg, & GK and Fender-owned SWR's: reviews say are unreliable/junk
2) Older Peavey, Carvin, Acoustic & Sunn: mostly overheavy and underpowered

Then there's the Carvin MB Micros that tease with their price and features, but you're stuck with their bulky, built-in 200watt speakers which can't even be bypassed, nor breathe at all in those sized boxes, and will only accept an 8ohm extension cab--lame.

So Carvin, plz give us poor players the Micro Head at half the price of the BX500 Mini Head: $180/$190 shipped, with 200watts at 8ohms and possibly 350watts at either 4 or 2 ohm. Be the leader and make America proud.

(Positive only plz) Talkbass posts/comments here are welcome as "votes." Consider this a petition to Carvin Marketing.

______________________
Well only one positive response and about a dozen critiques, but none fatal to the idea. This last post summarizes page 1 fairly well:

Originally Posted by Richard Lindsey

Well, you know what YOU want. How do you know what consumers want? Does everybody want what you want? Unless it's food and sex, probably not. And I think your cost breakdown is
a tad shaky. $130 for the speaker? Doubt it very much. What makes you think you know Carvin's economics well enough to demand a certain price point?

Well, nobody asked me or any of my 100's of semi-pro musician-friends if they wanted any of the 3 Micro Cabs before they sunk 6 or 7 figures in R&D, so :raspberry:

For cost, see their catalog: 10"woofer: $50, 2-way x/o: $80, tweeter ?, shipping, labor, international commerce licenses/insurance etc. etc. Elementary-school math says they can sell the amp for $150-$190. They just need some encouragement. And like the 1st post said, I'm tired of spending months shopping for inadequate used stuff, as are all the fellow shoppers I haggle with almost daily. The market simply sucks from uninformed middle management too busy getting high in the Bahamas. (You know the type from countless comedies.)

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

A low wattage amp that goes to 2ohms? Sounds like a non-starter. Sounds like someone wants Carvin to cater to the cabs they happen to own rather than a market niche.

Addressed in post #16. (Do a proper random sample of any pair of cabs owned and you'll find an 8 and a 4, =2.6ohms. I'm talking far broader marketing terms than a niche, i.e. the norm.) Okay, maybe the BX500 is the lowest price-point they can do 2ohms at though? Well how does one know without asking? I'd still prefer the OPTION of two $190 Micros that do 250w at 4 ohms that I can buy one at a time then daisy-chain thru the tuner out. And Carvin would earn the same as a single BX500 sale.

[rpsands]

MB200 anyone? They've had some QC but the support is decent. I think by the MB200 they're probably pretty reliable

[tocs100]

Originally Posted by rpsands

MB200 anyone? They've had some QC but the support is decent. I think by the MB200 they're probably pretty reliable

$229 with no dynamics control and only 200watts at 4ohms and no 2ohm capacity or 2nd speaker out = strike-out for GK, imo.

Plus why would you encourage outsourcing vs. a made-in-USA product?

[craig.p]

Hey tocs, me too.

I actually did get a chance to run the head with two Avatar B212s. I had the on-board fifteen out at the time, and the tweeter disconnected. It was nice. Could've handled a mid-sized club.

[rpsands]

Do you really need a 200w @ 2 ohm option? Seriously? Who with a 200 watt solid state head that weighs 3lbs is going to be needing two cabinets at 2 ohms?

[Chef]

I concur with you on that rpsands...but that's just me.

Frankly, I don't understand why someone would think you can have a brand new, full featured head for $150; or why that's a valid pricepoint. I think the GK MB200 is a very nice "rehearsal" head for it's price. How much more do you want to undervalue the american (or other) worker, or amp designers work?

If you need to spend $150 on a gig worthy head, you need more gigs. IMO.

YMMV, of course.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by tocs100

I give-up finding a good used head in the $200--$275 range shipped:
1) Non-USA Ampeg, & GK and Fender-owned SWR's: reviews say are unreliable/junk
2) Older Peavey and Carvin: mostly overheavy and underpowered

Then there's the Carvin MB Micros that tease with their price and features, but you're stuck with their bulky, built-in 200watt speakers which can't even be bypassed, nor breathe at all in those sized boxes, and will only accept an 8ohm extension cab--LAME!

So Carvin, plz give us poor players the Micro Head at half the price of the BX500 Mini Head: $180/$190 shipped, with 200watts at 8ohms and possibly 350watts at either 4 or 2 ohm. Even $150/$160 shipped for a model minus the 2 parametric eq's would be great (heck offer both). Be the leader and make America proud.

(Positive only plz) Talkbass posts/comments here are welcome as "votes."

No offense, but

1. How about a used BX500?

2. IMO your suggested price point for the features you want is probably unrealistic for a US-made product.

[tocs100]

rpsands: I have a Peavey 410tvx 4ohm as my main, and a Carvin Neo15-4ohm for my stage monitor. And even if either were 8ohm, I'd be down to 2.6ohm when running both.

Chef: Speaking of needing to "play out more," you'd be surprised in practice how many clubs lack adequate pa support, or pay for more than gas when all is said and done.
Wait, so Carvin can an sell the Micro combo at $329, $50 of which let's say is for the cab-build & extra labor for the eq's and $130 is for the crappy Chinese speaker(s)/x/o and overseas licenses/shipping/border shenanigans to procure such components. They could easily do $150 just for the head. Although many could live with $180 too I bet. Then the 100,000+ bassists in the market would have money leftover for a better bass and/or guitar gear too, rather than wasted, crappy speakers & cabs.
Tell ya what, I'll erase the $150 option just for you. :=)

Richard: Used BXR500's only come-up maybe once a month for $300 and a) sell in minutes to those not cash-strapped, and b) risk being part of the defective "first run"

[greenboy]

Originally Posted by tocs100

They could easily do $150 just for the head. Although many could live with $190 too I bet. Then the 100,000+ bassists in the market would have money leftover for a better bass and/or guitar gear too, rather than wasted, crappy speakers & cabs.

People who buy combos generally want combos with crappy speakers and too-small cabs. That's why most companies that make combos that way. They have way better unit-shifting in such bundles too. Maybe after they've ramped sales more the head could become a separate item. But arguing this stuff is rather pointless.

[tocs100]

^Well it's worth arguing for the sake of the environment if nothing else. Unless you want to vacation on a THIRD Texas-sized garbage-flotilla 10 years hence.

If Carvin would read these forums more like many manuf do at Harmony Central, and start asking then giving consumers what they REALLY want--umm, headroom rather than used-car "specs"--we'd see far less new paperweight-combo's and child-pa's that go right in the garbage when they blow-up and the avg joe doesn't know how or even want to repair them.

For example, I blew an expensve EV 15 in my "econo-cab" and replaced it with a Carvin Neo-15: well it's a tiny bit better but still fails to substitute for clubs with tiny, child pa's and it and the cab are about to meet the dumpster along with the 30lb. EV. That's A LOT of waste.

[christw]

2) Older Peavey and Carvin: mostly overheavy and underpowered

Then there's the Carvin MB Micros that tease with their price and features, but you're stuck with their bulky, built-in 200watt speakers which can't even be bypassed, nor breathe at all in those sized boxes, and will only accept an 8ohm extension cab--LAME!

You're asking too much. You're whining that small boxes are too small and then ruling out the larger options as being too heavy and adding a requirement of an unrealistically low price point. Look at the overseas made Acoustic heads that GC sells. Even the cheap one comes in at $250 for 200 watts with average size and weight. As greenboy pointed out, small sells in combos.

[tocs100]

^But the product now exits: just lose the friggin' lame cab: simple. I broke-down the price about 5 posts in.

Carvin just failed to poll consumers and brainstormed a way to foist-off their crappy cabs and speakers which will only hurt their reputation in the long run--this ain't the cocaine 80's anymore, wunderkinds, this is the information age.

So plz don't hop-on the bandwagon of middle-management incompetence.

(BTW I was referring to older Peavey heads, not cabs: 40lbs. for a rusted-out 200w Mark-series head that can't do 2ohms? Uh-uh.)

[Bassdirty]

Originally Posted by Chef

I concur with you on that rpsands...but that's just me.

Frankly, I don't understand why someone would think you can have a brand new, full featured head for $150; or why that's a valid pricepoint. I think the GK MB200 is a very nice "rehearsal" head for it's price. How much more do you want to undervalue the american (or other) worker, or amp designers work?

If you need to spend $150 on a gig worthy head, you need more gigs. IMO.

YMMV, of course.

+1 on that.

But if we're wishing..why don't we just wish that they sell a 1000w head @ 8 ohms or 4 or 2.. or 1 ohm.. that weighs less than 1 pound (but isnt class D)..has all the controls you could ask for or imagine..a Pre/post switch for the DI...is also a tube amp at the push of a button..fits in your pocket, but is rack mountable (rackmount ears included). comes with a free dust cover...lifetime warranty....and a free bass and cables.
all for $49.95 (tax included)..with free next day shipping.


K..maybe that was a little sarcastic.sorry.


.

[christw]

Originally Posted by tocs100

^But the product now exits: just lose the friggin' lame cab: simple. I broke-down the price about 5 posts in.

Carvin just failed to poll consumers and brainstormed a way to foist-off their crappy cabs and speakers which will only hurt their reputation in the long run--this ain't the cocaine 80's anymore, wunderkinds, this is the information age.

So plz don't hop-on the bandwagon of middle-management incompetence.

(BTW I was referring to older Peavey heads, not cabs: 40lbs. for a rusted-out 200w Mark-series head that can't do 2ohms? Uh-uh.)

I see your point, but when I looked for lightweight heads it was because I was one of the people who are tired of lugging around high power and mid to high weight heads. (75lb SVT-II, 40 lb Kustom Groove 1200w) I wanted to have plenty of power on tap so I looked at all of the normal oens mentioned here: Markbass, Shuttles, etc. I'm not sure there's a large enough market niche for lower power lightweight heads with 2 ohm capability.

Even if there was a 200w 2 ohm capable head (putting it's 8 ohm power mark close to 100w I'd suspect) coming in at $180 I'd certainly just give out twice that to have the extra power on tap for one of the ultralights already on the market.

[Chef]

I'm not at all surprised by how many clubs don't have good PA support. Most clubs I play in, we're required to bring our own PA, because there is none at all, good, bad or otherwise.
And, my bass doesn't go thru our PA either.

So, you want a dirt cheap 150 watt head to play in clubs with crummy PA support? Because 150 watts is gonna carry the house?

You don't need to erase that option just for me. For me, 150 watts isn't enough for me to even play along to a loud home stereo with, so that's a product that will never interest me.

[quote=tocs100;10079180]
Chef: Speaking of needing to "play out more," you'd be surprised in practice how many clubs lack adequate pa support, or pay for more than gas when all is said and done.
Wait, so Carvin can an sell the Micro combo at $329, $50 of which let's say is for the cab-build & extra labor for the eq's and $130 is for the crappy Chinese speaker(s)/x/o and overseas licenses/shipping/border shenanigans to procure such components. They could easily do $150 just for the head. Although many could live with $180 too I bet. Then the 100,000+ bassists in the market would have money leftover for a better bass and/or guitar gear too, rather than wasted, crappy speakers & cabs.
Tell ya what, I'll erase the $150 option just for you. :=)

[tocs100]

Originally Posted by Bassdirty

But if we're wishing....
K..maybe that was a little sarcastic.sorry.

But I'm not wishing, I'm petioning with precise price and demand figures.

Originally Posted by christw

I see your point, but....I'm not sure there's a large enough market niche for lower power lightweight heads with 2 ohm capability.

Even if there was a 200w 2 ohm capable head (putting it's 8 ohm power mark close to 100w I'd suspect) coming in at $180 I'd certainly just give out twice that to have the extra power on tap for one of the ultralights already on the market.

Well let's just say that those with $400-$1,000 for a 450w, reliable head of any kind are not typical, nor are those with the choice to fine have their cabs just "happen" to both be 8ohms, esp. when buying used.

As a music-marketer I can state that starting/struggling musicians--mostly unemployed teens--outnumber avg. talkbass semi-pros at least 20 to 1: but the big marketing panels (should) know that already.

[tocs100]

Originally Posted by Chef

So, you want a dirt cheap 150 watt head to play in clubs with crummy PA support? Because 150 watts is gonna carry the house?

Now that's just plain disinformation: I said "350 watts." Spin spin spin away sir doctor. And my friend's SWR redhead blew-out a large club with 2 Peavey, 4ohm TVX's at half vol. (maybe 250watts at 2ohms--NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN' 'BOUT!).


Oh yes, and we kiddies wouldn't possibly want a head we could afford a spare copy of, or one we coud later add to, to double our volume, hell no....

[christw]

Originally Posted by tocs100

But I'm not wishing, I'm petioning with precise price and demand figures.



Well let's just say that those with $400-$1,000 for a 450w, reliable head of any kind are not typical, nor are those with the choice to fine have their cabs just "happen" to both be 8ohms, esp. when buying used.

As a music-marketer I can state that starting/struggling musicians--mostly unemployed teens--outnumber avg. talkbass semi-pros at least 20 to 1: but the big marketing panels (should) know that already.

I am a 21 year old college student with part time employment. I don't partake in the usual pleasures of those my age (smoking, drinking, eating nice foods, other drugs and such) because it allows me to get nice things for music, my real love. Even as a poor teen, I saved up like a crazyman so that I could afford these things because music was and still is my priority. I certainly wouldn't call myself a semi-pro. For my age I'm good but I don't have any regularly gigging acts at the moment. My brother, still 19, managed to save all of his money and buy a 2008 Harley Sportster 1200 which he later sold for a 2006 CBR-600 F4i. I guess we might be a very small niche of customers after all.

Oh, I also buy everything used and only buy when it's one hell of a deal. That's how I have so much stuff. I buy the player's instruments. You should see my Ric, P, and Explorer.

[greenboy]

thumbs up to you, christw. There's also a benefit in staying focused in all that.

[jeff7bass]

Carvin keeps their prices down by focusing on gear that sells while keeping the B4B value very high.
Maybe they'll come out with a head version later. I'm not sure the demand for it would be worth the trouble.